Bankless 🤝 Daily Gwei Friday Livestream! ($ETH SUPERCYCLE TIME)

Transcript

on oh you know oh i'm in san diego i'm no longer yeah no longer with my plants i had to leave and leave my plants in the care of my roommate you have a little plant behind you there you still got something there are real plants in this airbnb they're real plants oh well wait you're saying your plants are fake yours is real as well no my my plants are absolutely real but that's because i take care of them uh who like who has an airbnb and also like manages real plants i mean they're all like basic beginner plants that like are pretty like nuclear um but like yeah real plants yeah yeah basic beginner plants i love that i wouldn't even know what an advanced or a beginner plant is yeah yeah well that's

that's because you don't have any plants or you have figurines yeah yes i'm sure you know what an advanced figurine is and i have no clue you know what i find funny how your own is singlet and i'm here in melbourne and it's freezing today it's like uh nine degrees celsius what did you just call it fahrenheit uh a singlet i've never what do you call it a tank top oh really yeah sorry a what a tank top thanks oh you know we use tank tops but the singlet is used like fairly frequently in australia dude look at this one yeah yeah it's it's it's like it looks very like pacific northwest like trees and mountains and [ __ ] but also coffee and like it's yeah it's perfectly david i really like coffee if you didn't know that

uh yeah i mean i'm a huge fan of coffee myself so yes man it's been a couple weeks since we did one of these and you know i was i was telling you last night i'm like hey man like the eighth price was like way lower than it is now um and it's only been two weeks it's amazing how far it's going it was like 2700 or something no it was lower back oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it was like 2700 or something and now we're at like what is it like 4k just over 4k now yeah a lot has happened inside of a brand new paradigm completely different world did not say that oh no powerball i've been saying paradigm literally every available opportunity i'm a fan of like all of these like oh top signals can't say new paradigm blah blah blah i'm a

fan of just like blatantly violating those just for the sake of blatantly violating them well i i i hope for your sake that uh the the um the universe is kind to you for those because every time i celebrate an eighth price rise it just tanks so universe is not kind to me [Laughter] the the ethmaxy except for except for like the last week or so the quote-unquote eth maxis like you me dc etc like i feel like there has been like some like poking of the head of the gloating but like otherwise i feel like we've kind of kept it on the on the dl like decently well for for what it is for the current price rise yeah i i've noticed um eric in particular is is doing a lot of uh btc gloating um you know a lot of flipping

gloating and i'm just like man like i don't know i think you'd be fine with it i think it's i think if i started to do it that'd be really bad because um i think yeah as soon as i tweet something about the flipping i'm gonna assume that like the ratio is going back to like 0.016 the the low right yeah i mean it means different when you do it yeah yeah yeah so everyone else can do it and it's fine um i'll just i'll just retweet but uh yeah man what a crazy last last two weeks not just we're even talking about like as the flipping has like already happened or basically like guaranteed so so maybe this is a top signal i mean it's always been guaranteed in my mind it's funny because i've been saying it since 2017. uh it's just you know i we we talked about this a lot

in the bear market though um i remember it was like how is the flipping going to happen we would always have these debates and it's like well i mean eth has all these catalysts coming and you know 1559 was still in its infancy and and staking was like we knew what was happening we didn't know when and you know people were like well what about the the four year cycles and the bull market's going to come back is this all going to coincide with the bull mark and it's like well it can't like you know if the bull market comes back in 2020 21 uh you know this all coincides so but i don't know it was i think we knew all the catalysts were coming we just didn't know the timing of it like the timing was very hard right and and the catalyst

having the actual catalyst is one thing but like it takes away for the it takes a moment for the market to actually like integrate these things and understand them and like even even when we knew we were talking about proof-of-stake and like the the reasons why it's bullish because of reduced issuance and also ether lock up we're talking about define why it's bullish and we're talking about eip 1559 and why that's bullish it took us a while to integrate all of these things together right and like we had like the triple point asset thesis which is inherently like an integration of all these things but but people weren't really able to articulate the some of the numbers until we actually got closer to some of these things and that's where justin drake comes in like i would like to know how much of this like eath pump is specifically as a

result of like justin drake coming to the table and like starting to be like a marketing and meme person and it's like here guys like all of you like ethereum marketers people are like missing out on this like through line which is ultrasound money here it is and then all of a sudden eth just [ __ ] [ __ ] runs like tip of the hat to dress and drake you know praise um but like it takes a while for the for the market to really integrate and everything and it really feels like a an equilibrium shift uh we were talking about this with our in our episode with italic but in a completely different context about like um how like when people or people are coordinating and all of a sudden like people will stay coordinated but then all of a sudden everything will break up

at once like and everybody will run different directions at once for different contexts and it's like an equilibrium flip like people will be bearish and then all of a sudden it takes like one single catalyst and then all of a sudden it completely flips and all of a sudden people are bullish and i feel like that's what happened in the last like couple weeks or so we feel like i feel like there's been an equilibrium flip with ether yeah and i would say justin drake has definitely played a massive part in this he articulates the case very very well obviously you know being on bankless it's really great for him because you guys have a massive reach so you've had him on three three times four times yeah three three times now i just listened to the latest one yesterday actually and i like the sound effects yeah

i was i was losing it every time the sound effects were going on and i was on my walk and people were looking at me they must have thought i was an idiot but uh but on that note as well just like the fact that you know we've i think we've known about these things for a while like i i shared on twitter the other day a blog post that i did in january of 2019 where i was actually talking about the issuance drop that staking would bring back then i wasn't talking about one five five nine because that came out in april of 2019 it was first published then so but the thing is it's funny because a lot of these things were known for so long and yet the market took so long to to price it in now whether that's because at the time it was a bear market

right in january of 2019 i think that played a big part in it but also it was an awareness thing like how many you know back then it was really only us like small core group of ethereans that were actually beating the drum here uh and also even if you were promoting one five five nine the fees were really low so it didn't really mean much like right you could still get a transaction in for like less than five way like one way was like one way was the default and a hundred way seems absolutely insane like no way would edway ever get to a hundred like no we'll just one guy just send and like so at that point in time it was it was like well i could see why like you know people aren't really projecting this in like what is eath burn when there's no

fees like what all of a sudden then d5 summer comes and like oh right i forgot about how incredibly constrained the ethereum blockchain is yeah exactly i think i think a lot of people didn't realize that uh ethereum yeah isn't actually very scalable at least one like 15 transactions per second on average and you know we can get that up sometimes by raising the gas limit but obviously we don't want to do too much of that uh but yeah i think i think that played into it for sure uh but but still like the high fees have been around since d5 summer last year which was june compound launched the liquidity mining program um and then people still didn't clue into this until recently i think it it really happened when it was approved because i think people were like oh well you know we don't know if this is going

to go into the network or not it's still like uh in limbo and it's like well i mean the funny thing is is that i think one five five nine might have been in limbo maybe sometime last year like earlier in last year before um tim biker took over as kind of like a lead there i think you could say it was in limbo because it wasn't moving as fast as we wanted it to um but then you you kind of like had uh uh over the last few months where people said we're still saying oh it's in limbo we don't know and we're like well we do know we know what's going to happen like everyone wants this it's just a matter of um you know going through the motions so uh i i mean i think you know as much as we can say that

there was alpha early on there was but the real alpha was like having conviction that this stuff would actually happen like it's it's all well and good to know about it but yeah it's got to actually happen right right yeah and and at some point the market had to figure out that it needed to uh like we've been saying like no one no one was allocated to ether right except for like the core convicted believers therefore with any sort of reduction in execution risk all of a sudden everyone is under way ether just because like that's what it was and like suzu and kyle davies on the uh on on on bank list they talked about how like in 2018 like they under they maybe they were bullish

ether in the long long term but like in the short term we had like massive ico treasuries who literally didn't know what ether was or what to do with it and they had salaries they need to pay like of course ether is getting dumped down to 80 dollars like we didn't even have eip1559 at the beginning of 2018 right um so it's it's you really you would you would have to have like kind of trusted in 2017 2018 that like the ethereum development developers and ethereum the the community the nebulous thing called ethereum at large would really just figure it out like you kind of need to needed to have taken it at faith on that point in time now you don't really have to take it on faith anymore like like you said eip159 is approved we have the beacon chain people are starting to um

price in or not or people starting to price in reduced execution risk significantly yes yeah for sure and i i think the point that kyle and sue made about the ico treasury is i mean i listened to the podcast as well uh that was very salient that was something that you know me being like relatively noobish in 2018 still because i'd only been around for a year in the ethereum space i didn't realize like how bad that cell pressure would be and in hindsight it was pretty obvious because there was millions and millions and millions especially eos right block one who raised all that eighth they had no allegiance to ethereum they were trying to kill it with eos and and their bitcoin maxis because they put it all into btc like or a lot of it into btc in the end and they've got a huge btc war chest now but

essentially yeah in hindsight like you you could look at that and be like okay well the cell pressure from this is going to be immense and i don't think anyone uh uh thought it was going to go to 80 dollars i don't like i i don't know any one person that i spoke to or saw on twitter or anywhere that ever mentioned a double-digit ethereum again besides arthur hayes he was the only one that i saw that called for it and kudos to him for calling it at the same time i think he had a bit of a bit to play in that because he could you know he was a big part of bitmex back then um and bitmex was huge back then but i think at the end of the day it was a very kind of healthy shakeout of these ico treasuries

it needed to happen it got all of the weak hands out because yeah and as you said like yeah all the non-believers all the people who literally you know we're we're we're kind of like wanting to divest and and and we're like worried about their treasury assets and things like that so totally i totally get that uh but now i mean it's like completely opposite now because you don't have these massive uh ico treasures all these massive pools of eat that are waiting to be sold you have these massive pools of eats that are not going to be sold like staking right like uh locked in defile there's a i think there's an actual permanent uh cohort of ether that he's just locked in d5 forever right it's just people borrowing against theirs yeah it's just exactly frozen it like permanently and

just like sitting there and just never going to exit because it's just these big whales who have no uh no desire to exit they can just borrow against it like why wouldn't they do that um so i think that that's that's a large part of it and then we have 1.59 kicking in soon which is just going to delete supply which i i mean i still think people are sleeping on this like the fees like even in a normal state now the fees are like 100 ways like the normal kind of price it's like 20 million dollars or something a day still right and then and then when you have like real market mania this stuff can go up to like way more and then that's why justin drake looks at the the moving averages which is still putting us in a deflationary eighth with proof of work

issues right if we got a proof of stake issuance like you know things just get really insane and that's what i think like i put a tweet out last night about this saying you know people just still don't realize the impact this is going to have there's not much eat for sale this isn't saying you have to burn like you know 50 of the eat supply before you get a price impact there's like 12 percent of eth on centralized exchanges right now there is not much left out there right yeah dude and it's a really good point to use the moving averages of the eth um uh gas price because if you look at the log chart the log chart for the eth average gray price per transaction is just up and to the right as you would imagine right like we were hitting we were

sustaining three to four hundred gwai for like four days earlier this week which was absolutely insane but like what do you think they're like are we we seem to have like i feel like plateaued in like the one to two hundred like way range but i feel like we could in theory like start to see another leg up and start to like plateau at something like much higher like three to five hundred gwei how do you feel about that it depends on the the the people paying the fee right like there's a certain uh fee amount that's gonna lock most people out and then as the fees get more expensive more people get locked out and then eventually you only have a small pool of people that can afford the fees um so i think at this stage between 100 and 200 you still have early 8th buyers

who have made a lot of money who are happy paying these fees right you still have whales that are always happy paying them uh and you still have like uh uh arbitrage bots and stuff that i think that the bots are gonna be happy paying whatever fee as long as they're making a profit right they'll be happy to make even like a point 0.01 profit or whatever as long as they're making a profit so but as we keep going up uh yeah it's going to price out the it's going to continue to price out people it's going to price i think eventually it's going to price out like the early 8th investors who have made a lot of money the whales depending on the size of them it might even price them out but the the long-term goal of ethereum layer one has always been to be just a a proof

verification layer for layer twos right right and the layer twos are gonna be paying these fees and have no issue paying them because they're going to be making enough from their layer 2 in terms of like whether it's it's making a small amount of fees in aggregate which which which equal like large amounts of fees or it's like some some kind of um you know other way to kind of pay these fees like they're happy to do this and and the whales and the arbitrage bots on layer one again happy to to do this so i think that's how it's gonna shake out and i agree with you i i do think 100 to 200 is not going to last uh definitely not as more layered who's come online because they're competing for the same block space that that we are and then as i said they're not constrained they're

really not constrained by this sort of stuff there's so much money that they that they are going to have to pay these fees uh and at the end of the day they can make that back i mean uh from the layer too and i've seen loopering doing this where blueprint charges like a really small fee but then they use that to pay for ethereum l1 security which is just like the way to do it and i've i've been using the analogy that l2 is a user wrapper so you can have like millions of users in there and then just one transaction and that's that's the real innovation i think um and the real reason why you know fees can go pretty high on layer one but it won't affect end users and that's that's the real bull case i think and that's what a lot

of people seem to seem to miss as well yeah my mental model for this is that like the ethereum l1 is just like this big big like traffic controller between all the l2s right it's like oh all right ul2 deposits withdrawals over this l2 like here you are like big shuffler of value right and like the the payers of the l2 is largely going to be like obfuscated and it's really going to feel like robots are paying for these fees or at least that's like the hopia metaphor where like you're just you live on optimism you make a bunch of trades and then you hop into like the withdrawal period or whatever and like you pay your share amongst like a thousand other individuals right and so that gas cost gets really mitigated or or you just go from connects and you actually don't

even touch the network right like like final settlement will again like happen only by wales and by contracts and so we're all is everyone here ready all listeners and viewers ready to go be living on l2 because we're like we're all about to move to l2 like that's perhaps the permanent dwelling of of all future defy users i i think yeah i mean i i think for people to be ready two key things have to happen i'll be able to want to move to l2 in a big way two key things have to happen it needs to have the apps or like app parity or like um you know liquidity parity with layer one or at least like enough liquidity to service these users uh and you need to have the core apps on there you need to have the rvs the compounds the makers the uni

swaps all that stuff you need to have the core apps um and then on top of that yeah you need to have these um centralized exchange bridges in and out because i think that's very and and other ways of getting onto l2 like seller network has a as a really cool public transport system that they're calling it where it's batch transactions from l1 to l2 so there's only one gas fee paid which i thought was really really cool um you have other things like stock we're working on tapping into l1 liquidity from l2 uh and you also have ok x who who's a massive centralized exchange that recently recently announced they're going to be doing deposits and withdrawals to arbitrarium which is going live soon they announced that their developer main net is on may 28th so that's mainnet ethereum and the reason they're doing a

developer main net is because they want to get the apps on there first so users actually have a reason to go to arbitrage because if you're an l2 like a generalized l2 and there's no apps then what's the reason to go there there's none right it's like going to a dead city um and it's the same thing as like going to one of these other ghost chains or blockchains that have nothing on there right yeah yeah so so from that perspective i think uh you know that's very very important and that's what's going to happen and it's going to happen it's just we're still so early like people think that because the prices are relatively high we're we're late in the game we're not because the adoption game is the prices always get ahead of the adoption always and i don't think that's true for

i don't think that's true yet i think i i think it's true for a lot of platforms but for ethan i mean bitcoin i think that they're fine but a lot of the other platforms are really overvalued i mean i i don't understand how cardano is still like what 63 billion market cap it has no smart contracts it has no usage it has literally nothing going on and it's just the future potential right and in bull markets that works narratives marketing you know promises they work um and you know and another to say that that some of the stuff in you know d5 isn't overvalued as well based on like a usage perspective you know some of it is uh but like and i mean you know dogecoin's at 70 billion i don't know like who's to say if that's overvalued undervalued like it's a mean

point like it's though it's not trying to be anything yeah like and that's that's the thing um so so from that perspective i just think yeah people need to realize like on the usability side and on the utility side we're still so so early and these other platforms that are promising cheaper transactions faster transactions like you know whatever i can go through a couple of them cardano are no smart contracts so they kind of promised anything polkadot also very early on they didn't have powertrain functionality at the main uh kind of like innovation that they're claiming right um you know just scrolling through the list here like ethereum classic dead va chain i know nothing about it but like i don't know anything about using it delegated proof of stake supply chain system exactly like

never ever worked yeah exactly and it doesn't make sense to have a whole blockchain centered around that um solana and eos uh i mean solana sacrifices decentralization from scale still having problems getting usability it's it's very early it's super isn't there a proper wallet that that works very well yet uh eos is eos [Laughter] polygon is actually i mean it's been having a really great run lately uh it's at 10 billion cap um and i'm an advisor so i should really not really talk about um the price of polygon i don't want to influence anyone but i think in terms of usage if you look at polygons usage um and polygon isn't like its own i mean technically it has its own validator set but it actually commits

itself to ethereum and and runs at staking logic on ethereum so it's not it's not like one of these other blockchains right but it has like so much usage like it's way more the only thing that i use on a daily basis and it fits [ __ ] awesome gas fees are nothing and they're in and transactions are instant it's like oh this is this is [ __ ] fantastic like it feels like when i was using binance back in 2017 i was like oh great instant instant verifications fantastic on the on the cardano note i think the most bearish event in cardano's history will be the delivery of smart contracts because as soon as as soon as they have to like take themselves seriously and be like oh yeah yeah we have smart contracts now like oh

now we have to like catch up to ethereum like which had smart contracts in 20 in 2015 like it's going to be the biggest sell the news event and in my opinion not financial advice but like as soon as things become real for some of these communities with with vaporware and all of a sudden when they go from vaporware to real where then then like everyone sobers up really fast we're like oh we have so much more work to do we just got to the starting line i'm calling i'm calling yeah yeah yeah i mean i i agree with you definitely on that uh i think that it's funny because there are people who genuinely believe that as soon as cardano gets smart contracts all the developers are going to go and build stuff on there and i i don't know if i've said this on on the

live stream before but i've said it like many times before elsewhere i have never in my entire like lifetime in this industry met one developer who has said that they're thinking about building on cardano not one and i have spoken to a lot of developers like i would say at this point probably thousands of developers i've spoken to and not one of them have said karena they've said everything else like they've said oh you know crocodile you know eos even ios back in the day right or celina or whatever but never cardinal and that to me is the clearest signal that there is just literally nothing going to happen on this this is a promise chain it you know i know that there's always like peer review and like all this good tech and stuff and maybe the tech is good maybe it is like um you know valuable

but that's not the point right the point is that it's so far behind uh you know ethereum and and like even the other trains it's so far behind that i just don't see a a world where that even like where cardinal does anything other than like exist as a promised chain um you know and it can exist as that for quite a while for some reason people love promise james yeah it's martin probably that's a good way to put it promise trains i'm trying to pull up a tweet from my buddy michael wong here we go uh let's see if i can copy right into the zoom chat um but i can just read it out here he goes and we talked about this in the bankless weekly rollup today he goes no fees no validators no validators no security no security no developers no

developers no users no users no fees and so like this is like this is a crypt this is what a crypto economic system is he just went from like start to end and then back at the start again of what a crypto economic system is and like starting something starting a crypto economic system it's hard because it's a chicken and egg problem and like that's the main difference between bitcoin and ethereum and why we always look at that crypto fees page and why ethereum people are like yay we look at all the fees we're collecting and everyone else who is new is like oh look at all the fees that they got just gouged out of users but no like it's a signal of the liveness of this crypto economic system and so like if you don't even have smart contracts you don't have fees right so

like who's even going to secure this thing if they're not getting paid any fees and if you're not if you're not secure then why is anyone going to build on your [ __ ] and if you don't builds on your [ __ ] then no users are going to use your [ __ ] and then you don't have any anyone paying any fees so you don't have any any fees being paid to the people keeping the things secure and so at this point it's like it it's almost too late because you have to ask yourself like why would i deploy on anything else other than other than what's already a live system right yeah and i mean that's that's true and i i think on the on that note as well i i struggle to find like why any of these other tokens will be fundamentally

valuable if they don't generate like any type of fee revenue on their platforms because they all they they literally all advertise themselves based on the low fee thing and the fast transaction thing so if they don't have that then there's no use for them at the end of the day like they don't have ultrasound money no exactly exactly so like i mean i've said this so many times like for me it's just a no-brainer for us to have an incredibly decentralized and secure base layer and then just scale it layer two there is no point doing lots of scaling at layer one because then your asset is not going to be worth anything and your network is going to be insecure because your asset in the long run is something that people don't want to hold and don't want to um you know keep buying whatever there's no

demand for it um you know and like yeah people can say i'm staking asset like but that's like a a cycle like the staking uh people need them are being paid with block rewards and on these networks the block awards are quite high because they don't have the fee revenue to make up for it and they have no like burning of of fee some of them do like file coin um and and what not but like far coin is not a smart contract blockchain it's a utility chain it's very different uh so uh but but and like i think maybe nia has it but nia doesn't like he's a ghost chain as well doesn't really do much transactions or whatever uh so yeah but but then again the narrative just breaks down if your only selling point or the selling point you've been going on for years is

fast and cheap transactions and then you start becoming like expensive well then you know no one's going to no one's going to use you like bsc actually started becoming somewhat expensive because they were hitting the limits that they had set um well i mean relatively like growth must be so high it is it is but like relatively i think it got up to maybe a couple of dollars for a uni-swap trade right and okay that's cheap compared to ethereum and that's fine but the thing is if you're running on like ultra shape transactions even a couple of dollars is too much right for your chain right um and it wouldn't stop at a couple of dollars if it basically kept getting usage in and they didn't raise the gas limit then they're going to run into the same problems as ethereum at the end of the

day and they raise the gas limit i mean it's already centralized and and whatever but so from that perspective i just it boggles my mind when when i think it's just people people don't understand right people don't want to understand when they have bags and it's not that that people don't understand it's just that they they they um at this point in time they don't want to and if they it maybe one day they will and maybe a lot of people will i think they do i think there's a there's one person that i i'm aware of on twitter who was actually a massive eos bull during um 2018 19 and 20 uh maybe maybe 20. and no matter how many times that i tried to explain to him and other people tried to explain to him that eos was it was a dead end he wouldn't believe us now he's

a massive eighth maxie like huge max so i think i know he's talking about i think i know yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i don't want to i don't want to call him out like exactly but like but um yeah just like it maybe it just takes this this time for people to clue into this and to understand it and to come to terms with that they're they're the concepts i understand right because like crypto crypto so multi-disciplinary right if you don't like like figure out most of the disciplines that make up crypto like you can't really put the pieces and pieces together i keep using coming back to this metaphor of like a sudoku puzzle like when you come into the world of krypto and you don't know anything you have this very empty sudoku puzzle and also it's like a five out of five

difficulty sudoku puzzle right so you come in with like some like prior knowledge about you know basic finance basic economics but even like people who are extremely like you know majored in finance in college that doesn't mean anything like i actually kind of attest to like one of the reasons why crypto resonated with me so well is i took zero finance and econ classes in college so i came in with a blank slate like that kind of actually maybe helped me to some degree because i didn't have to unlearn things that were irrelevant or just like jaded uh and so like you come in and you fill out the sudoku puzzle but it takes a while it took it took me like i'm still learning [ __ ] i'm still filling in my sudoku puzzle i might not mine's not even done uh and so it takes you a while to really

fill in all the pieces to really get there um go ahead go ahead and i was i was going to say it also takes the market validating your views as well uh to to and and for people to like uh i guess like come on board too i think with uh as i was saying earlier like this was you needed conviction for things like one five five nine or early on you needed a conviction for staking we knew staking was gonna happen but we just didn't know when and then think about how much misinformation and disinformation there is out there of like there's there's large bitcoin maxi accounts like they have a lot of followers and they were saying for many years and they still are that ethereum will never shift ship proof of stake right and now they're saying oh it's it's a separate train they're never

going to shift the ship the merge it's like how can you say this like we've got test nets with the merge already going there's transactions happening on these tests well now they're real tech like exactly exactly it's their brand they cannot go back on it now so from that perspective there are there are literally potentially like hundreds of thousands of people maybe not maybe not that much but like a lot of people that are being completely misled here that to get out of that bubble is going to take a very long time i was actually sitting on a bitcoin maxi uh clubhouse room a couple days ago there was like some weekly meet up and oh my god their talking points have not changed since like the early days it's exactly the same it's just like straight up all they do is they throw out or ethereum is

centralized they give no evidence to back it up they say oh it's all on aws no evidence nothing right they don't back up any of their claims they just claim things as if they were true when i call something centralized sounds like a code it is a cop room but like when i call something centralized and i'm very careful about what i call centralized but when i call like bsc centralized i mean that's verifiably true right there is no debate there like 21 nodes even if the 21 nodes were were quote unquote distributed or or or not part of finance's control that's not enough nodes to be like uh decentralized like at all also that's not even all the all the conversations about decentralization because because they have such high block sizes that's a completely

different centralization vector so we have centralization on multiple fronts exactly exactly so that that's why i'm pretty pretty careful in what i call centralized uh because yeah it's it's definitely a term you have to use um you know in this space like lightly uh depending on who you're talking to but yeah i i just think um from that perspective it's just amazing to me that that that these people just like i mean it's cope yes because the ratio has been going up but it's also just like it's the willingness to to keep telling yourself the same lie right and and and keep telling yourself like even if like to me wouldn't you see the signal of the ratio going up as like okay well you know maybe there is something to this well no because they're so entrenched in their views and they're so like

entrenched in their own brand they can't change and a lot of them actually hate like have deep seated hate for ethereum like when i talk about other platforms other blockchains as if like i don't like them it's not that i hate them right i've got nothing against them i don't have like this burning hatred i just don't think that they're a viable platform i don't think that there's something good or good technology but these people literally hate ethereum and it's visceral yeah it is viscera and when you hear them talking about it it's like you kind of get like i mean i'm not gonna say you get scared but you're like you know how far will these people go with their hate are they gonna try and do something like you know i remember people speculating on twitter that that vitalik needs bodyguards because like

he's a target and i mean he is a target like are some of these people crazy enough to do something like that um because they believe that and ironically if something happened to vitalik and then ethereum kept chugging and ethereum kept developing and going along it would kill all the you know it's centralized around metallic things right like and that they would it's just ironic because they would have a piece in that but but yeah really when you when you really think about it it's uh it's it it gets kind of scary i think yeah yeah um i mean a lot of the bitcoiners i've never met a hostile bitcoiner in real life um i went to a bitcoin beefsteak event in 2019 i think uh and met a lot of bitcoiners and i was very much obviously the aetherian um yeah because this was

that this was at ck's rooftop at his apartment in san francisco so it was all bitcoiners right uh and so like there were there was some amount of like friendly but also not completely friendly jabs um like just you know jabs here and there but uh that was when the the btc ratio was like point zero three and so i'm about to go into the uh the bitcoin 2021 conference in florida uh with an eth btc ratio of 0.08 and that's gonna be a very different story um but you know like i've never met a hostile bitcoiner in real life i think they kind of generally keep their hostility towards towards crypto twitter um but but there are some extremely hostile things about crypto like crypto twitter like some bitcoin maxie was like i can't tell who i want to punch in the face

more either you or ryan sean adams it was like oh sweet dude like have less hate in your life man um but like i said bitcoiners are are a cohort of love inside themselves they kind of give it to themselves very loving people for themselves but like not for the not for extra communities um and so like there is a little bit of conflict there i i actually on that note i remember saying to someone a while ago i think it was in 2019 they asked me like why bitcoin is so toxic it's like well they're toxic to us they're not ourselves right like if you're if you're in the in groups bitcoiners are amazing right like they love you mm-hmm exactly but if you're in the out group yes they're toxic um and i think

that's that's the clearest delineation here is and and the explanation as to why people think like how could someone be so toxic it's like well because they're not toxic to themselves like you can keep a group and a tribe if you're gonna use that term going uh very easily because uh of the fact that like you know they're not talking to themselves it's when they start like fighting amongst themselves that things start to splinter and i do think there's been a lot of that over the last few months where there's been moderate bitcoiners who see the value in ethereum and then they're kind of like debating with the the maxis or whatever and there's been like a splintering of groups in there and and i think that's why bitcoin's social layer is like completely broken is that that unless you're talking about bitcoin unless you tow the party line

you're in the out group essentially even if you like bitcoin and you you do stuff a bitcoin you are the app group which do like i think nick carter said the wrong thing one time and he just had like a week of getting bombarded by bitcoiners and like it's nick carter like he's fighting the hardest fights in the world for bitcoin and you guys are still out to get him like what the [ __ ] leave him alone and they turned on andreas antonopoulos a while ago as well who's been like you know one of the top educators for uh for bitcoin and because he wrote a mastering ethereum book i was like wow like this is just this is insane anyways let's uh let's uh look at some charts instead of [ __ ] on other communities which i know i know we tend

to do a little bit a little bit a lot uh let's look at some charts uh yeah let me let me bring up the charts which one which one are you gonna bring out first uh i want to bring up btc first because i think that um not that i really uh follow it too too much there you go can you say that yes one moment i'm gonna [ __ ] some [ __ ] up really quick and then i think that'll be good okay okay cool yeah we're good to go yeah so oh yeah dude look at that 20 20 week moving average all right that was god it has been so long since bitcoin has touched the 20 week moving average not since like october holy hell yeah yeah and and the reason why you want to watch the 20 week moving out

just because a lot of people consider this the bull market support line where if it closes below this um for for an extended period of time uh you can say i mean for at least like two to three weeks i would say you would say like the bull market is over because if we scroll out and we look at look at what happened in uh 2017 here uh if i yeah you can see basically i gotta scroll out a bit more here 2017 uh basically or even 2016 when the bull market started again it it tested this line right and wrote it it never fell below it it tested it here tested it here tested it here and then it broke below right it tried to go at it again then it got rejected so the 20-week moving average turned into resistance and then

obviously we had a bear market so that's why people looking looking at this and like okay well if bitcoin can hold this line and grind it that's really really good for um you know non-bitcoin things that's why people are calling for a defy season they're calling for like old season whatever because if bitcoin can just go sideways and ride this line up always well for the rest of the ecosystem but if bitcoin falls below it then yeah it's not it's not it's not fun it's not party time anymore right um i'm very happy that we have touched it because yes yeah i i don't think we're breaking down below it in my opinion because i'm generally a bullish person and so actually uh on like a risk and i heard a ledger say this on his podcast so i'm just copying him here on a risk adjusted basis like

bitcoin feels really safe right like it feels like it's pretty close to its relative bottom it's at this very historically safe spot uh and and i i think like a good healthy tap of the 20-week moving average feels really good right now and i think that bitcoin is is could have like a moment here yeah i mean it's been brutalized for a while right it's been just trending sideways since uh like february i mean going up and down between like the 50 and 60k range here uh and then ether's had like an amazing run um and the ratios had an amazing run but if we look at like just just to put in context how brutalized btc has been here oh my god like this is big can you move everything

over just a little bit to the left like yeah perfect perfect right there yeah yeah yeah yeah so like look at this that's nine that is straight red weekly like that's the most it's ever fallen in a row right like we are we were talking before the show but like it kind of feels like a buy right now yeah and yeah i mean for traders like traders definitely look at this stuff um and if you see like we're coming up towards like key support because the last time it felt like this it bounced off this right um and we're coming down and and it's being so brutalized and you know you usually want to buy assets when they're not looked at by a lot of people and right now bitcoins the boring and and and the dead asset according to a lot of

people and yes like as ethereum's we're really excited because the the ratio is going up and stuff like that but you know just from a technical kind of standpoint this is this is really bad this looks like bitcoin is just dying or gonna they're gonna die um and in reality that's not that's not how it happens it ha maybe maybe the flipping happens over the long term but in the short term we could see like a pretty maybe it takes another couple weeks but you know when it happens we could see a very violent bounce and bdc could just go straight to 100k yeah and and like bitcoin is due it's getting like it needs to really figure out this like gb dc premium thing but really i feel like the gbtc premium and the lack of the the etf is really the only two things

holding bitcoin back that is within like quote-unquote bitcoin's control right the whole the whole energy debate that's outside of bitcoin's control that's never going away um but the really the takeaway that i have here is that when the legacy world finally comes around and starts to pay attention to crypto bitcoin dominance falls that's when bitcoin dominance makes new lows every step of the way when the world when the universe wants to pay attention to crypto it doesn't want bitcoin dominance high it wants bitcoin dominance low which tells me that in a world where crypto is mainstream bitcoin and dominance is going to be low like i'm sorry hyper bitcoinization is not happening because whenever whenever the great grander world pays attention

to crypto bitcoin dominance it finds new lows um and so like that that's to me like a very strong takeaway because when people want crypto every they want things that are more interesting than and like perhaps like the biggest argument why bitcoin hyper bitcoinization will never happen is because people want alternatives just naturally like when you go to a restaurant you like options right uh and like i guess it's the conversation of money like you want just one money but like no i mean maybe you want one money but like you still want multiple assets you still want like you can have one money and still have bitcoin dominance still be really really low exactly exactly and you know i i do think that over the longer term btc dominance i mean i i don't see how it

goes back up to like 75 percent yeah even in a like a even in a in a um you know in a bear market i don't see how that happens uh yeah yeah month is going to look pretty pretty hilarious wow holy hell yeah this goes back to what what i've that's not the bitcoin dominant chart that i remember seeing okay uh well yeah i mean it looks looks pretty hilarious but i guess the same thing happened in 20 2017 right but i think um i shouldn't say this one scale this is log oh my god it's it's because of this it's because at the start like it was near 100 and like we had such a brutal drop when when eth um had that run in 2017 uh i mean yeah log and linear look look

the same yeah yeah this is this is really really brutal and that's i mean yeah could be a good like short-term thing for traders to take advantage of but you know if we look at the ratio though like the btc ratio things in my in my loins it looks it looks pretty fun but like it does look like this right like 2017 right um but that means it can keep going up quite a while but i don't think we see this again i really do not think we see an eighth btc downtrend like this again because ethereum as a platform and ether as an asset is sufficiently different and and differentiated from bitcoin and it has its own value drivers it's not just all hype and promises it is actual fundamental value from d5 staking in one five five nine which is like the

three core pillars there um and so i don't i don't see how we yes it's not gonna go up forever but i don't see how we get this again like this brutal 90 more drop in in the 8th btc ratio i i don't know i just personally don't see that happening when i when back in 2017 i can't actually like remember why i was so bullish on like ethereum's app layer like what did we have in 2017 we had like auger like in development like we didn't even get auger until like 20 late 2018 or like early 2019 or something like we had golem which was like i guess i don't remember why i'm excited about like gpu cloud mining services in a decentralized fashion like don't remember why i was bullish about just

ethereum's app layer at all we did kenny i'm calling it app layer because we didn't even call it d5 back then now we just call it defy all of a sudden like there's extremely salient and strong reasons is why you should be bullish on d5 right now and because like i use ethereum all the time and back in 2017 i never use ethereum only to like speculate on icos which we're promising the world but in hindsight it made no sense exactly and and you know it's it's funny when you think about it ethereum was the promised chain in 2017 [Laughter] right right like i'm going to say that now like no that's right that's right ethereum delivered right if you live it on all its promises it was the promise change there was none of this stuff live

yet um and now ethereum is the the ship chain right it's the thing that delivers and i think the the ratio here you could probably look at this as a signal for what happens to every other asset um or every other blockchain asset against eighth right right because i typically look at um other assets against eight some of them have performed like i think even cardano has like this this pattern that it likes maybe on binance that it likes to play out weird looking chart holy hell yeah like this is just literally like up and then down up and then and down and then up again and down right so it kind of looks like i just think that yeah yeah i guess like i mean it didn't really bounce off the the the support here that it was trying to hold but i mean

generally like i think these kind of assets get brutalized in down markets much more than btc and ether like because people don't want to hold them right they want to hold them in the bull market for the trade they don't want to hold them in a down market when everyone's trying to flee to safer assets and the safest assets are usd 8 and btc right usd obviously yes and but usd is actually less safe over the long term now because of the inflation um uh worries um so i i don't know i do think that during down markets like people will go to usd but they'll use farm with it so they'll stay on ethereum and they'll still be paying fees on ethereum which means that if they're east will keep getting burned because of 1559 like even in bear markets is bullish faith okay go go look

at um let's look at bbs uh uh bitcoin cash over bitcoin or let's look at eo eos uh eos over bitcoin yeah i mean actually recently that looks a bit better maybe bitfenix yeah yeah so okay oh wow that did that did spike at the end that's what the winners wanted btc to look like yes yeah yeah yeah exactly um but in a bull market short-term staff is traders speculators right um they uh block one announced some exchange that they're launching i'm sure they're gonna be trying to pump eos up as much as they can anyway i do think that like you're gonna see reversal here right um during manias because

i actually think that if we have like a d5 season now and then like we have another bitcoin run to like over 100k and then that peter's out there and we have like a unquote alt season you're gonna see some some stuff that's gonna make you sick like i really do believe so because traders and speculators don't care and aren't loyal and don't care if these things are complete [ __ ] if it looks good on a chart they're going to trade it that's as simple as that right plus there's straight up like 2017 flashbacks that and i'm not talking about like the individual but like the market at large will have like oh uh eos and cardano are pumping simultaneously let's also pump uh litecoin and and like dentacoin because of 2017 flashbacks

like that's that's what happened the last time these things pumped like what are the other tokens that also pumped like 2017 flashbacks the markets behave like this in weird ways exactly exactly and i think you know what's funny i think i i clear a picture of this is dpi i call the bottom i call the bottom yes i am three days into a correct calling of the bottom i'm yes so hopefully it holds yes no no i i think it will um i think this is the first strength that d5 has has had against um eighth in a while like you can see like it's just been trending down a lot yeah i think that just because d5 is going up doesn't mean eight can't go up uh i think it's gonna continue to trend up but the only thing that's gonna stop this train is if

bitcoin wakes up if bitcoin wakes up that this part is over like completely over um but and if it did it would make a lot of sense i mean it would but as i said i think that uh bitcoin can ride that 20-week moving average for a little while i actually think that it's here i think that bitcoin is currently here which was the last d5 season during september uh and october here i i do think that we're gonna get this for for a few weeks um and then d5 is going to run deep for a few weeks dfi could like go back up to this range uh and then yeah bitcoin dominance will fall a bit more maybe it wants to test this kind of bottom at 37 percentage that's yeah that would be a capitulation

reversal and i could see that playing out uh like obviously not investment advice i don't trade but i do look at the macro trends and i think the macro trend is that people want d5 right now they're the fire's been brutalized for so long um bitcoin has a probably a couple more weeks left of this and then bitcoin will will do a god candle i reckon the reversal on bitcoin is going to be pretty pretty biblical because people are gonna be under underexposed to bitcoin um and they're gonna and traders are gonna pile in and uh yeah i do think we're gonna see that and then i don't think that's bearish for eth usd i think eth usd will go up with bitcoin usd but the ratio might take a little bit of a bit of beating but long term it's it's all fine this is just short-term stuff

let's uh let's pull up the weekly eth us dollar chart i haven't even looked at eth yet yeah maybe yeah the weekly chart weekly chart i want to feel some pain oh my god it's scary oh it's so scary it's so it's why we don't look this is why we don't look at linear because it's it's not a very accurate representation because it's not taking into account the magnitude of the moves god holy [ __ ] the 20-week moving average is moving up so fast it is it is it's it's still only at 2k though which is hilarious um 8 is actually like uh three times its old all-time high now which is what bitcoin was at before it stopped pumping at like 60k or whatever

65k um but east still feels like it's got more to go because bitcoin was pumping on events right it was pumping in reaction to events like the treasuries and the public companies and all that sort of stuff is pumping on catalysts that haven't happened yet right um yes exactly and institutional money is coming into eth2 but i don't think that that's a bearish thing and then once they announce it it's going to be it i think that um one five five nine and a and and the the merger are two massive catalysts that are that are going to happen to to keep driving ether and also the um all the d5 activity all the d5 growth and the layer 2 stuff is just like on top of that so

yeah that that's that's i think that's the key difference between btc and eight is that btc doesn't have any catalyst besides an etf in the us that's the only catalyst it has and like some more companies adding it to its balance sheet but now eth has that right and it has much more than that right to drive value to it so i i don't know not not to say that bitcoin can't go up it surely can there's a lot of bitcoin supporters and a lot of people who will buy bitcoin but for me this is why i've never held it because ether is just like so much better than it on every front like in my in my opinion i i i hate to say it and i don't think bitcoin kind of deserves the anti-climate change like branding as it does have but one i think even bit bigger than the

merge bigger than the eip1559 is the fact that ethereum at least in the short term over the long term those things are fundamentals therefore those things are the entire case for it for ethereum but in the short in the short term like the next six months ethereum if it can which i don't think it has yet because it's proof of work but if uh institutions are doing their due diligence they're probably finding out that like ethereum is going to be the green crypto it's going to be the green crypto uh and it's going to be the green crypto that's also capturing an insane amount of fees and so like exactly we've seen we've seen a ton of institutional money come in and that's perhaps the reason why the ether has had its recent price run but i feel like those were the first institutions and something that suzu

said on the uh on the uh on our show with him and he says this everywhere it's like price is the biggest predictor of price right and so if the first wave of institutions came and allocated their bags the second wave of institutions are coming because now everyone else some institutions be like [ __ ] like [ __ ] what do we do what do we do like we got to get there we got to get there uh vance spencer who who's in eath bowl just like us on the scoop said that he's he's cognizant of an absolute mountain of cash on the sidelines waiting to get into ether uh from institutions so who knows how many more institutions we have in the chamber to really pump the eth price but like perhaps a few more well i think so and i think the beautiful the thing is that we don't we

don't uh uh rely on them as much as bitcoin does i believe but also on the energy kind of thing think about all the esg portfolios that can't have bitcoin in it right but we'll be able to have ethernet once we move to proof of stake that's a huge chunk of money that bitcoin is just locked out of because of its energy footprint and i've been saying this a lot lately but i don't have any strong opinions on the energy debate uh i don't know enough about it but what i do know is that narratives can be more powerful than the reality even if the reality is that bitcoin drives renewable energy research and bitcoin's actually good for uh for the environment doesn't cause any adverse effects climate change even if all of that were true it doesn't matter it is a losing battle there is no way that

bitcoins are going to win this war at all i i don't believe they're going to win this it's almost like we're like fighting it is really them losing yes exactly and i think it's a noble thing for them to be fighting for and kudos to people like nick carter who really do fight like it's really hard public servants i just exactly i just i really don't think that they've realized that this is a losing battle this is not a war that can win uh this is something that's going to be some something they have to face head-on they're going to have to you know they're going to try and convince the people that they need to convince but at the end of the day most of the world's population is going to look at the surface level numbers and they're going to think wow okay you know

this is using so much energy and on that note if we're talking about surface level stuff to explain that bitcoin's energy use is actually a good thing it takes a long time right you have to show people all this research and whatever to say to people well ethereum uses proof of stake it doesn't use private work it doesn't actually use mining that is just such a simple explanation and kills all of the all of the doubts people have because they're like oh well it's just using a normal computer um it's fine so we were talking about how it's insanely hard to explain why ethereum is what it is and all the go chains aren't and it just takes a while it's the same thing with bitcoin that's a hard complicated argument to make and actually kind of not verifiable i i've i'm in the camp i

want to believe i'm not yet convinced i'm not i'm not convinced either and it's it's very hard to verify it's very hard to explain it requires esoteric knowledge of so many different areas it requires knowledge of how energy production works of what produce like what um percentage is produced by renewables and coal and all this sort of stuff that's too much the the average person is not going to look that deep the average person is going to say is your chain like eco-friendly and if it's on proof of stake it is right and you know i know there's opportunists out there there's other blockchains that have you know distributed proof of stake that are saying that they're eco-friendly or whatever and that's fine but like yeah exactly like you're just you're just noise at the end of the day i think until the merger happens ethereans are

just ethereum is just as guilty of this energy uses bitcoin is but once it happens and we literally kill proof of work overnight we are in such an amazing spot as um from that uh and because i mean i've been saying like for a while that i think the energy thing is just going to get worse for bitcoin is it's going to get much much worse uh over the coming months and there's going to be governments and nation states that will regulate this stuff they haven't yet but they will because they'll get pressure from the constituents to do so and even if that pressure is misguided even if it is wrong to think that bitcoin is bad for the environment um it's the narrative is more powerful than the reality it doesn't matter and that's that's just a sad reality not that i'm saying it's right or wrong it's just the

reality of it and it's a reality that bitcoin is going to have to come to terms with i think right there was a binance got a knock on the door from the irs or some three-letter agency of you know somebody anyways the the problem is is that if you are instantiated in reality in meat space like you are going to get regulated and bitcoin miners are going to get regulated because they have massive real meat space footprints right uh and and so like there's a big criticism and from the bitcoin world of a theory about how ethereum is just going to be the kyc chain just because of the centralization of ethereum it's actually quite the opposite like bitcoin is going to become this highly institutionalized uh sorry one second uh oopsies

sorry i should have warned you before i did that yeah now i gotta get to where's obs the stream people are gonna be freaking out um oh it's working it's fine am i still alive my obs is down oh [ __ ] sorry dude i might have just killed the stream it's actually quite the opposite why am i hearing myself one sec sorry i should have warned you before i killed it no that wasn't you that wasn't okay well i happen to have it at the same time i don't know how my obs is down oh no it's still up

okay what the hell is going on but my obs is closed it is yeah it well now and now i need to now i need to change screens in ops but um but now now obs isn't open and i now i'm hearing you like 50 times i need to quit this obs is frozen what the [ __ ] well okay you know how we're gonna fix this uh can you just share your screen again because that's how we're gonna fix this okay sorry stream yeah sorry guys i should have warned david before i did i think this is the right tab uh

hopefully yeah okay we're just gonna have the eth price on the page for the rest of the stream okay what we're talking about right and so like bitcoin miners are going to be instantiated in me space and they're bitcoin is literally going to be like there's going to be um uh and uh what's his face ben hunt made this uh made a whole entire post on this where like bitcoin is just going to become like institutionalized as an institutionalized asset because all on-ramps are going to be centralized as they are but then that's it because you don't have an internal ecosystem like your btc kind of stays on like you don't have an internal part of bitcoin to send it to right and so you're gonna have centralized on-ramps with with largely centralized custody

like bitcoin is just gonna become this like well this is this wall street asset and because of what ethereum is ethereum has this place for you to escape to which is the inside of ethereum and it's also not instantiated in meat space because of proof of stake uh it it's fulfilling all of the og visions of cypherpunks and this is what we've been talking about for a long time in the ethereum ecosystem is that well how can you have a um decentralized money in bitcoin if all of it just sits on exchanges and the entire banking system for bitcoin the entire financial system just sits on centralized exchanges and that's why you know we've all been bullish on d5 is because we get that um you know insular economy where once you're on ethereum

you can do whatever you want there's no kyc or aml and these default apps or anything like that you know yes some of them have admin keys and stuff like that but that's just for upgradability of the contracts they never none of them have abused it yet in in any in any way i mean yes they can abuse it in the future but um you know the tr there's truly decentralized apps uh too like makeup for example it's like a you know set of governors and everything like that it's it's very uh very decentralized but yeah that's why and that's what we've been arguing for for for a long time now is that uh you cannot have a decentralized money without a decentralized financial system uh backing it up so here's a hot take for you uh can you can you pull up the doge chart because

i'm about to start oh doge is the silver to bitcoins gold and we all thought it was like it was going to be litecoin but no because bitcoin is a meme and litecoin not much of a meme dogecoin big meme doge this is this is a new store of value asset i think doge is getting repriced as a crypto money i think we're gonna have btc ether and doge as the three crypto monies that's my hot tub i i think sorry this is a log chart as well oh my god um i i and this is against usd against btc it looks even more hilarious but um i'm a i agree with you i think that uh a

money is a meme at the end of the day and doge has the best memes the best kind of like and um the next the best simplest narrative behind it where literally it does nothing except exist like it's just a meme coin um and from and from that perspective like a lot of people kind of like um you know resonate with that and obviously elon musk has been a flag bearer of it i think maybe without elon musk it wouldn't have pumped like this but i think the day doesn't really matter what the catalyst was what matters is that what narrative sticks right and you can see that though it's just really not fallen like how people thought it would people thought it would just go back way down but it really hasn't and the the the dog coin meme has obviously played out in bigger ways through these

other dog tokens and stuff like that yeah i totally agree yeah yeah and and you know dogecoin has been around for quite a while um it is merge mined with litecoin um you know it's so that means it's like relatively secure um but well yeah i don't know the one providing the security to litecoin litecoin is now more secure because of doge yep exactly uh so yeah this is hilarious now i think this is the funniest thing that's ever happened in crypto because it shatters a lot of um different uh i guess like notions and narratives that big monitors have been trying to to push for so long where they're saying oh no bitcoin has the best memes it's the best meme coin there's actually a positive for bitcoin well i mean you don't have a monopoly on meme coins man like doge is a better meme like at the end of the day

so you know and and and i remember like on on on the the kyle davies and siri podcast that you that you guys did they were talking about how someone said to them you know what's stopping doge from flipping bitcoin once each flips bitcoin right what like what's stopping bitcoin from just falling out of the top ten like nothing because bitcoin competes on a mean mean coin basis with everything else bitcoin competes on uh in the same arena they think they don't but they do so i actually think that the top 10 will eventually not have bitcoin in it at all if it doesn't if it doesn't evolve like it'll be it'll be yeah exactly i said tokens and and the funny thing is is that bitcoin can stop this by evolving and you know maybe they do evolve uh hassu had a good comment on twitter the other

day where he thinks that the flipping could be bullish for bitcoin in that it pushes bitcoin is to to evolve and i don't think that's going to happen yeah yeah i i don't think it's going to happen i don't think bitcoins have it in their dna i don't think they would have socialized it was just hard fork it wouldn't be there would be no consensus it would just hard for death by a thousand forks that's it you know yeah uh and and and he compared it to ethereum by saying you know uh by other chains popping up it lit a fire under ethereum's ass and it did but that's because ethereum has that culture bitcoin does not have that cultural social layer to evolve ethereum has always evolved and it is open to evolution bitcoin is static it does not want to evolve it wants to i mean it

wants to evolve extremely slowly with very careful and calculated upgrades which is fine but that is not how you win so i actually do think that once bitcoin is flipped and permanently flipped and ethies number one and there is nothing stopping it from from being flipped again there is nothing keeping it at number two all narratives and notions of bitcoin i have a bitcoinization bitcoin being the you know crypto being a winner takes most market bitcoin being um the one and true asset that all goes out the window no one's going to believe that with bitcoin number two so yeah that's it's a scary notion for bitcoin is to consider but i think it's a reality yeah um somebody in the comments is like bitcoin out of the top 10 like what did i just hear like i don't think dogecoin is going to be in

the top ten i but i think the world for some reason has just much more of an inclination to productive assets so the top 10 is going to be ether number one productive assets of on defy tokens like two through ten and then we got like doge and bitcoin scattered throughout like somewhere and and that's probably not for a really really long time at least in crypto terms so three to ten years uh yeah but but yeah like i i would like to know what i would like to know the arguments for why bitcoin would stay in the top ten if it gets flipped if it's not number one because from from from where i'm sitting every single argument for bitcoin's value comes from the notion that it is the most valuable

crypto asset that is the best story of value that it is the best money but that ranking is you know go to eric twitter account right now oh really yeah go to aircraft check it out i open twitter uh man oh god if i start typing it's not incognito so if i start typing it might come up with something well i'll help you yeah i'll let you finish and then i'll just read it for my phone yeah yeah yeah yeah so um i mean that's that's basically it i just would love to hear arguments as to why bitcoin is going to be valuable if it's not number one because so much of its value is tied to that okay so here here's his tweet i want to read this out uh word for word because he got it really really really really uh well uh eric tweeted out uh

yo seriously bitcoin narratives are gonna look so hilarious after the flippity they didn't plan for being in second at all did uh is he listening you our live stream maybe uh no no he tweeted he tweeted this out like right before we got on live oh okay okay well yeah i mean but this exactly exactly that's like a really um nice way of putting their branding works fantastically when they're number one it's but it all falls apart when they're number two yes exactly and like as as you said before maybe we should uh like uh calm down on the on that on that on the uh the hate i mean but it's not it's not a hate it's just like the reality i think but at the end of the day i think ethereum wins by its utility eighth wins by its its utility um and i

think most of the world 99.9 percent do not care about digital gold i've always thought that like my my you know everyone that i know in real life that isn't into crypto they couldn't give a [ __ ] about digital gold man like at all like there's an old people okay sure yeah uh but i don't even own gold and i don't care about gold and who cares it's like and and that was always the grand delusion i i thought of bitcoin is that they thought that everyone would suddenly care about a digital goal just because it was digital when yes the the the pie might be a bit bigger but at the end of the day people want utility out of their assets one percent of all bitcoin lives on ethereum because people want to use their assets um and yeah that's that's kind of like how

i view it i'll leave uh i'll leave maybe the stream with this last comment um uh there was a video of kate and long on some like cnbc or something and so they were asked she she was asked like before the interview really got started she was like can you just explain the difference between bitcoin ethereum and dogecoin and she said well bitcoin is like this decentralized like reserve asset new monetary unit it's a brand new money that we can denominate in ethereum is very different and like caitlyn long is a bitcoiner and was very political and didn't really didn't do any of the [ __ ] on on other assets that we are currently doing um but she was like ethereum is very much very different and i and i noticed what she said was like it's not a money

right it's not a wealth denomination it's a smart contracting platform and it's not going after what bitcoin is going after which is trying to be a money and then and then she goes and dogecoin is actually a fork off of bitcoin and not all that much different than bitcoin i'm like did you just listen to what you just said you just called dogecoin not that much different than bitcoin and you said that on cnbc or whatever like platform it was like holy hell like there's this subreddit called um self a werewolves or something like she just forgot to be like a little bit self-aware that she just called dogecoin and bitcoin like largely the same thing yeah on a technology standpoint they they are largely the same thing um you know uh and yeah i mean i don't know

people are gonna say call me crazy for thinking that uh you know bitcoin can fall out of the top ten i was called crazy for thinking it's gonna go to 10k right where hold on we're not there yet we're only at four okay we're going we're there about but now it's only it's very close and it's pretty i think we're gonna go there and people call me crazy for the flipping talk well you know you can keep calling me crazy and i you know if these things keep playing out then i you know i look less crazy but anyway well i think we can leave it at that for now for today's stream absolutely all right listeners you can follow zazzle you should probably follow him on his youtube channel i know you guys like youtube because that's where we're here i just posted his uh daily gray youtube channel

in the chat make sure you follow it because that's where sazzle gives out takes of this nature every single day or five days a week and i thoroughly enjoy it and that's where i get a lot of my news you can also follow him at zazzle0x on twitter and also like the video and stay tuned for one week from today where we will do this again actually we'll have to we might have to reschedule that one but later later end of the week uh and and here's daily gray again thanks everyone for listening well now i have to figure out how to shut down the stream because my application isn't even open wait are you on a mac or a pc i'm on a mac uh okay i'm just gonna turn off free stream that'll that'll do it