Arbitrum Nova live, L2Beat updates and more - The Daily Gwei Refuel #424 - Ethereum Updates

Transcript

hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the delegate refuel where i cut the latest news in the ethereum ecosystem i'm your host the enthusiast assigner and says the 10th of august 2022 all right everyone let's get into it so i'm sure all of you saw this yesterday but basically someone was i don't know if they were trolling or if they were kind of like protesting here but someone was withdrawing funds out of tornado cash to a bunch of publicly kind of like doxxed ens addresses here of kind of like popular people on uh on twitter but off twitter as well i mean in crypto twitter and outside of it so basically influencers now of course i'm on the list and i'm actually in this screenshot here i had uh some fun sent to me 0.83 eth sent to me from tornado cash now as i said don't know if this is

being done as a troll or a protest or both prose test because it kind of like shows the absurdity of this cut these kind of like sanctions as i discussed yesterday like is my is this all dot ether dress now you know bricked can i not touch it is it like if i touch it am i going to get in trouble for doing that because i'm interacting with a kind of aid that was received from a sanctioned kind of address like you see what i'm where i'm going with this right like people started withdrawing it to centralize exchange hot wallets like are they going to be kind of like uh i guess like um uh doing something illegal now you know it's just it's really really silly and it's not like bitcoin where you have the utxo set and you can choose which kind of like utxos you want to

spend the ethereum account model is that means that all the eighth is fungible so i can't you know pick out the eighth that was sent to me from tornado cache and say okay well i'm not gonna use this eighth uh i you know this eighth is the tank today i'm not gonna use that i'm just gonna use my my um kind of like untainted i can't do that like it's all fungible so maybe i could send that exact amount to the burn address and then i could be like hey i didn't use it you know it was sent to me and i just kind of like got rid of it because you can't send it back to the person who sent it to me because it's anonymous right i went through tornado cache i don't know who said like where that eighth came from right so it's

messy it's silly uh honestly i don't even know what which layer i could speak to i don't even know what advice they give me at this point because it's just such a fresh thing so i i don't know i i mean i haven't done any transactions on satellites since i got this um this thing but not because of this just i haven't managed to do any transactions but i'm not too concerned like one i'm not a us citizen uh and and two like i feel like senior heads would prevail if i was i don't know got taken to court over this or something like that something extreme right i feel like you could just easily argue like argue that like hey i didn't actually use this this was just sent to me from here and again this is why these sanctions are really really dumb but i just wanted to kind of

mention that because i saw a lot of people tagged me in this and was like some people were making fun of me saying oh finally hassel's going to jail i'm like what did i do to people to make people hate me this much like it's just weird um i think you know depending on how like the bigger you get with the following the more people hate you for whatever reason but i was just i was just kind of like laughing it off and then we had a bit of a laugh about it in the discord channel but there is serious ramifications here like you know i mean you can see other people on this list like jimmy fallon for example he has an ens so yeah just very weird but just wanted to kind of like call it out there uh because i saw people tagging me in it

and just wanted to let people know i'm definitely aware of it uh i just you know i'm just kind of like well it is what it is right like there's nothing i can do about it i can't stop people from sending uh tornado cached eighth to my public address uh and for any to any other address any of my addresses right unless my wallet was a smart contract wall and i basically had a white list of what could send me funds uh but it isn't that right it's just kind of like a normal eoa so yeah anyway i'm gonna move on from that there's a bunch more updates to get through particularly with the merge obviously the girl emerge is happening today the current time is a bit weird like if you go to bordeaux.wtf it's currently happening at 3 30 a.m utc that is a bit later than what it was

yesterday i believe that's 1 30 p.m my time or something like that and there's also going to be a bankless livestream of course uh where is that bankless live stream i think it's here there's going to be a bankless kind of like girly merch live stream that i'm going to be on hopefully it just depends what time it happens because i have some people coming to my house tomorrow to do things so i'm hoping that it doesn't happen when those people are here so i can actually join the live stream but we'll have to see right like the the problem with ttd or i guess like the drawback of tdd is that it's really hard to kind of i guess schedule uh well i guess like know the exact time that the today is going to be hit and the merge is going to go through even on

something uh like a poa network right so that's happening and i thought this was quite funny um uh vitalik's dad here dimitri shared a picture with the caption you're watching michael sale youtube videos talking about the ten commandment commandments ethereum teams are getting ready for the gurley test net merge today last one before the actual merge and i am playing weird games we are not the same there's a picture of vitalik and dimitri playing literally playing 3d chess here which i thought was quite funny so yeah i i like that he kind of like shared that there but it really man it really speaks to the the major difference between i guess the two communities one of them likes to talk about kind of like the commandments and the holiness of bitcoin and stuff like that and the other is just you know plotting along with

technical upgrades right maybe i'm generalizing a bit there but that's kind of like the vibe uh and in other merge related news both tether and circle have basically said that they are going that usdt and usdc will only be redeemable on the proof of stake ethereum chain and it will not be redeemable on the proof of work uh chain if there is one that gets kind of like forked off which means that the usdc and the usdt will logically go to zero on the proof of work ethereum chain uh it'll be basically worthless so maybe you'll have time to get out of it before that happens i don't know it's gonna be a mess that pivot work chain is going to be an absolute bloody disaster like i actually hope it happens just so i can watch it play out because this is probably the only time it's ever gonna

happen in a large-scale way um and i'm just you know kind of like a fork of the ethereum state and all the negatives that come with that and chain link also said they're not going to be supporting the proof-of-work ethereum chain so goodbye all the oracles it's gonna be pretty entertaining to watch to be honest so i'm definitely gonna be watching out for that but great to see that both tether and circle have come out and definitively said uh even though we knew this was gonna happen like there was basically a zero percent chance they were going to support anything on the proof of work ethereum chain but this basically uh is kind of like you know hard confirmation from both of them so i'm glad they put they put this out there there's a new merge related blog post from block native today all about

uh block building and how that's going to be uh being done post merge you've probably heard of things like pbs before proposal builder separation mev of course you've heard about and this is all stuff that's kind of being worked on post merge and block native are the experts in in this area uh you probably remember me suggesting the podcast that matt cuddler matt cutler one of the co-founders and ceo of block native did with bankless you should definitely go check that out if you haven't yet either uh very very uh great company doing a lot of great things around this i should kind of disclose that i'm an advisor to them but i mean i became an advisor because i think they're doing amazing work i think that they're doing uh work that is going to be very valuable long term for ethereum and yeah they keep

putting out this awesome information too so definitely go check out this blog post i'll link it in the youtube description um and i think this is the last merge related thing d5 pulse did an interview with justin drake here that you can kind of like watch on twitter and i think it's on youtube as well so if you go to the d5 pulse youtube channel you'll be able to find it there so just wanted to give a shout out to that one but i think that's all the merge related news the next time i do the refuel tomorrow the girl emerge will pretty much hopefully be done i mean there's no reason why it won't be done and then we'll be looking at the main net merge as i said ttd will either be kind of i guess proposed on the consensus layer call which is happening

this week or the orc called ebbs call which is happening next week we'll have to see but i mean within the next two weeks we'll know i guess within the next maybe a week not even like 10 days we'll know when mainnet ttd uh is like the kind of like timeline i still think it's going to be that september 9th week of september 19th it could happen earlier it could happen you know much later it could so this is the thing about ttd and and timing around it because with mainnet i mean even though like it uh even though the same games won't be played with the hash rate as they were on on kind of like robsten and sepolia it's kind of like hard to know how much miners are going to drop off right like is it going to be like 30 or 50 or 60 of

the network that drops off before them kind of like merged ttd gets hit which means that let's say we propose the merged ttd with an estimation of it happening between september 19th and september 26th well what happens if more kind of hash goes offline than we suspected right well that could push the main net merge out to early october as an extreme so just like that's the again the trickiness with ttd and we're gonna have to see how how kind of like that goes there but there's always the option to override it too like if a lot of the network drops off that we can basically override the ttd that was set so we can make it happen earlier but regardless it's going to happen we just have to wait for it to get hit but yeah anyway that's all the merge-related updates for today on do some exciting layer two

updates so we had arbitram announce a new dawn is upon us they have arbitrary nova which i think i spoke about a few months ago and they announced this but this is now live and open to the public nova is a new chain built on the arbitrary any trust technology and optimized for social and gaming applications that require ultra low fees and high security so uh reddit is using this i remember discussing with you guys that reddit had um the community point system that they were using arbitram to scale with and they're doing that via nova not so nova is not a roll-up it is more akin to like a volidium that i've spoken about before where the data is actually stored off-chain as part of a data availability committee which they have here these are the partners that they're kind of like um

entrusted to i guess uh hold that data here obviously a lot of big names consensus ftx google cloud p2p validator quick node reddit and off chain labs uh you know it's a pretty pretty trusted set i mean it's a completely trusted set but these are big entities so they're not just unknown entities here so very very cool to see that but yeah i mean that's the only way right now they can i guess offer those ultra low fees like i'm not talking about like 10 20 cents i'm talking about actual ultra low like 0.0001 or something like that and that's what immutablex has been doing as a validium right on ethereum they're just throwing the data off chain posting the proof kind of like on chain and that i believe is similar to what kind of like arbitrary nova does here so very very cool to see that this is now live uh and

reddit is going is going to be launching their community point system on nova and you can bridge to nova right now if you want to i mean in the blog post here you can kind of like see uh if you kind of uh scroll down a bit you can see all the information about this about the data availability committee getting started with nova using the you know arbitrary bridge here to do so so very very cool to see that arbitrarium has i mean off chain lab i should say has launched their second chain here just before they're launching uh arbitrary nitro right like nitro is coming in i guess 21 days from now august 31st is when they said that they'd be live there so a lot happening on the arbitrary front and not just small things either like big things with big partnership ships like i've

read it i mean imagine reddit eventually doing a kind of like token airdrop for community points on nova imagine the amount of new users we're going to be getting into the ethereum ecosystem because of this like this is really cool reddit user base is absolutely massive obviously it's uh i guess i don't remember the last time i checked what its user base was but it was definitely i think in the hundreds of millions so imagine having potentially that many people even even just a small percentage of that those kind of like people using arbitrary nova ver and you know very very cool technically using ethereum right because it's on a um on a layer 2 chain you know people often kind of like debate the meaning of i guess like layer two and they some people argue that volidium's and something like an arbitrary nova is not

or an arbitrary trust chain is not a quote-unquote layer two but i think we have to start separating these things out because like while it's not a roll-up i i don't know i still think we should call it a layer 2. like i think that because it's a hybrid ride it's not like a a strict layer 2 or a true layer 2 which is what roll-ups are where everything goes on ethereum layer 1. but i feel like the narrative war around kind of like the layer 2 terminology is not going to be won by being like actually it's this so actually it's that right i feel like uh but people already refer to everything as kind of like layer two so i don't know it's just kind of like a battle that maybe is a discussion for another day but something that i've been thinking about a lot later lately anyway

but yeah definitely go check out the blog post if you haven't yet around arbitrary nova and on board onto it if you want to do so uh an l2 beat just in time has come out with an arbitrary nova project page so you can kind of learn more about it here see the tvl in arbitrary nova and see all the controls uh like you normally would on l2b which is very very cool this is a pretty detailed breakdown all the contracts are linked here and everything just like you would expect from the l2 beat team so very very cool to see that speaking of l2b they also released a huge update to their infrastructure generally here so the l2 beat.com website is now being updated on an hourly basis so not just a daily basis this has been a long requested feature one that i've i've been meaning

to see i've been wanting to see for a long time uh and it's using 20 times less less bandwidth to compile as well and there's also some high resolution charts you can see here the tvl figure this is as i said updated hourly for each and every project and uh you know the total up the top here as well what i wanted to kind of like point out here is the like optimism caught up pretty quickly in tbl right like it was uh it was you know a few spots down the list here i think it was like a 500 million then it caught up very very quickly when they started doing their i guess like rewards you can see the spike in the chart here which is which is pretty funny um but again i go back to my i guess long-held belief that tvl

is an inferior metric at this point i know that the l2b team is working on being able to kind of like show a bunch of different metrics not just tvl but obviously other kind of like activity uh on here but you've also got other websites like crypto fees dot info which show you l2 activity then you have like rb scan and optiscan which have charts and obviously doing analytics as well and things like that too so you can definitely go check that out but very cool to see that l2 beat did a massive upgrade uh and now they update their tvl counts hourly instead of daily all right so uh this project that i have known about for a while because i'm an investor in them there's your disclosure has introduced themselves today so uh in ingonyama here i hope hopefully i'm saying that right like it's funny

i kind of laugh sometimes i'm an investor in in some projects where i mess up the pronunciation but that that's just me as you guys know but uh what this project is trying to do is something that i've spoken about before on the refuel is that they're wanting to lower the barrier to entry uh for zero knowledge proof so actually computing the zero knowledge proof so they're actually going to be developing the hardware uh or zero knowledge zero knowledge asics uh to make this a reality so this is a reason why i back this company because i think this is going to be a huge thing going forward and i've discussed before how obviously like miners um will be able to kind of like use their equipment to prove zero knowledge um i guess like uh proofs and kind of like do the computation and everything like that

well with the hardware that ingonyama is building here they'll be able to do that in more and more democratized and more scalable way because obviously the asics that have been manufactured up till this point uh made for proof of work not necessarily made for proving out the kind of like a zkpcr whereas ingunyama wants to kind of like solve that and and make the hardware for that so very very cool to kind of like see them uh doing this and see them revealing themselves today you can learn more about them obviously by um by reading this blog post which i'll link in the youtube description below but this is one thing that i'm very bullish on over the next few years using hardware to compute the zk proofs instead of using it to do proof of work and as i've mentioned before this does not mean that we're just replacing proof

of work energy usage with uh kind of like a zkp energy usage it's got like i i i think i discussed this on the reef the other day it doesn't work like that at all like there is no there's no proof of work here you're literally just computing something that's uh kind of like like a normal computation that you would do outside of zkp's like using your gpu to play video games is running millions trillions or whatever number it is of computations to show that video game to you right so it's not it's just using a normal kind of like amount of power there and it doesn't scale linearly with the price of an asset there's no asset tied to it there's no kind of like uh difficulty or that makes it kind of like harder to mine and more money is going to come online there's

none of that right it's literally just running your normal computations like you normally would uh and like that data center is already doing things like that yes they are heavy computations so they're going to use more energy than just kind of like browsing the web right for example but it's not going to be the energy usage of proof of work not even close to that i mean it's not even worth comparing the two because they're so totally different but i just wanted to clear that up from anyone who might be thinking that still all right so i should have talked about this before but this was just another thread on arbor trims kind of like launched today the arbitrary nova launch i should stay i should say with uh links to some more resources here so definitely go check this out as well for more information on

on arbitrary nova and i'll link that kind of like underneath uh the arbitrary the other other arbitrary announcement that i spoke about just before all right so speaking of layer twos uh scroll uh scrolls intern put out another thread today which is an overview of scrolls roller network so what rollers do is they serve as the provers as i was just kind of like discussing the approvers um with ingo nyama there they serve as the approvers in the scroll network and are responsible for generating the validity proofs for the zk roll up so let's break down the workflow below you can kind of see a nice little uh graphic here of how this kind of works at a very low level there's also a thread here a mini thread here discussing this and this kind of like links back to the scroll architecture overview blog post that i spoke about

the other day on the refuel which you can kind of obviously check out which i'll link in the youtube description below but yeah guys like things are moving along here very very quickly i think the focus hasn't just shifted to layer twos in general but it's really shifted to zero knowledge optimistic roll-ups are great and they're obviously working today they're gonna be around for a very long time still i think but even the optimistic roll-up teams are now kind of like getting ready for the zk future the zk future as i've discussed for years on this channel is the future that we're barreling down towards it's just that they weren't ready they're still not ready for prime time don't get me wrong and optimistic roll-ups got us to that but got you know going to get us to kind of like uh uh i guess a short to medium term solution

but on top of that they're also being built in such a way where all of the stuff that's being built on optimism and arbitrary can just be kind of like plug and play with zk as i discussed the other day you know optimism bedrock has been has been kind of like design so they can just rip out their fraud proofs and replace them with validity proofs which is you know zero knowledge proof so to speak right which is very very cool so uh yeah a lot of talk about this a lot of stuff going on about this lately and we're just gonna be seeing more and more of this as time goes on the zk future is uh not really a future anymore i mean it's already here we are creating the future as time goes on which is very very cool to see so i'll link this in the youtube

description for you to check out of course all right so metamask has some updates today so these are some more i guess like ui and ux updates here basically making it easier to see what you're giving permission to so you can see on the left hand side here the old interface of i guess kind of like giving permission to an nft a nft contract here and on the right side you have uh kind of like an updated interface that says that gives you a lot more information about what you're doing so it says you know do you want to give permission to to this contract to access all of your bought a yacht club uh kind of like apr organic permission you are allowing the following account to access your funds so just a really good quality of life uh kind of like update here ui ux update

for users of metamask to make sure that they know what they're doing here and there's a bunch of other updates as well which you can read in the youtube description uh below but yeah i mean i like this you know people often give metamask a lot of i guess i would say deserved grief for the ux and ui that they kind of like present to the user but i think metamask is in this position where they have so many users that any changes that they make have to be changes that uh basically like a 10x improvement over what they already have because they'll end up kind of uh confusing people if they if they don't do that and obviously the metamask support team doesn't have the capacity to keep replying to millions of users wanting to kind of like ask you know what is this change why does it show

this you know how my funds gone blah blah all this sort of stuff and we've seen you know lots of metamask scam accounts pop up because of that as well so i i don't envy the metamask team in terms of kind of like the position that they're in and what they have to balance and the delicate balance that they have to kind of deal with but it's great to see them dealing with it and still putting out these ui ux updates that are extremely important for the end user so definitely go check out this thread i'll link in youtube description all right so i forgot to cover this yesterday but the gamestop wallet is now fully integrated with the immutable xl2 protocol at wallet.gamestop.com i think i covered this a few weeks ago when it initially went live but now it is fully integrated apparently which is very very cool so

you can as i said go to wallet.gamestop.com here you can download the kind of like wallet here onto your phone onto i guess on onto sorry in your browser onto your iphone here and use the immutable x network using the gamestop wallet which are very cool to see so i mean i discussed this a few weeks ago so no point rehashing in here but there's more information on the website which i will link in the youtube description and below all right the last two things i'm going to talk about today is a bit of commentary here one of the tweets is from sudo theos who says crypto is inherently political decades of difficult work was done by cypherpunks to allow you to flip monkey jpegs on the blockchain with the worst legal fight still ahead of us please contribute to crowdfunded crypto legal defenses when

possible and i remember i think it's been a while now probably a couple of months now i spoke about the pulley nft that was kind of like um uh being uh done or an ft drop that was done to fund leighton cusack uh the founder of uh pull together his legal defense against kind of like a troll that seems to be suing him for absolutely no reason uh but it's not just there right obviously we had the tornado cash stuff that happened uh yesterday or the i guess like yesterday yeah i covered it yesterday on the refuel um and we need to be spinning up more legal defenses we need to be kind of like hitting back on these sorts of things we need to be challenging these things in the courts because at the end of the day they're not something that should be uh should be standing right

especially the harsh sanctions on tornado cash which are very unjust unjustified in my view and also unworkable as i discussed at the beginning of this um of the of the refill today but uh yeah i think what theo does is um hit on a really really important point about all the work that was done over the past few decades to get us to this point because if you don't know the history of cryptography and the history of uh kind of like crypto in general and i'm not talking about crypto as in hypno currency i'm talking about cryptography in general and the early work done by the punks to make sure that things like like all cryptography wasn't outlawed i mean the government has tried to ban these sorts of things in the past like they tried to ban it in the like when the internet was getting popular because

they didn't want uh i guess like people being able to hide their presence on a massive communications network right so they tried to do it and then the cyberpunks fought back against them and i mean the tldr is obviously that we i mean the cyberplanks mostly won they they didn't win everything because there are still kind of like things that governments have done or are doing to make it really hard for people to i guess like be completely anonymous online and stuff like that but they fought and they fought these battles and and and they kind of like fought for us and that's what enabled us to kind of like have these luxuries that we enjoy today which is like fully encrypted communication across the internet you have that you have end-to-end encrypted communication which is i mean a marvel of uh i guess like technology but a

marvel of social and political uh uh i guess like wars that have been fought in the past as well and now we're at the beginning of a new war and that is the war for crypto like i then this kind of like leads me into my second tweet where i said you know i've long believed that the only way to test if something is truly centralized is to have nation states try to control it we're only at the beginning of this war not the end and surah theos actually had a comment which i thought was pretty pretty apt here where he replied and said we finally left the tutorial area we have like up until this point guys like i know there's been other government action before but i think that it really was a red letter day when uh the the kind of like um us government

sanctioned uh sorry the u.s treasury department sanctioned tornado cache which is open source code and i really do think it's a turning point and i really do think we're at the beginning of this wall we have to keep fighting we have to keep building better more robust decentralized tools because we can't rely on governments to kind of like regulate this responsibly like even if we lobby them even if we fight them in their own court even if we try really hard to get them on site and to get them to understand all these sorts of stuff not all governments are created equal not all of them are going to apply the laws regulations rules and stuff equally and a lot of them are going to get it wrong a lot of them don't want to have a kind of like democratic process i mean a

lot of governments around the world unfortunately are not very democratic even the ones that are democratic don't look very democratic right which is just an unfortunate reality so if we want to i guess keep building and keep using decentralized tools we have to fight for it and there are multiple ways to fight for it obviously one is to fight them on their own turf right in their own court which you can do through lobbying through the the actual literal courts and things like that but the other way is to stop building garbage centralized tools like i know centralization is is kind of like existing in a lot of defy obviously a lot of the la2s and for good reason but the thing is is that they shouldn't be centralized for longer than they have to be like yes okay do it because you want

to put training wheels on and all that sort of stuff you want to kind of like balance i guess decentralization and i get i guess being able to upgrade the system and also user safety but like you're either going to be decentralized or someone's going to decentralize are going to force you to decentralize because if the government comes and and it comes knocking and basically says hey we don't like for example on one of those layer two networks if the us government comes knocking and says hey we noticed that this address is kind of like doing stuff on your layer two network and we know that you have total control over this network we want you to blacklist this address well if it's a us-based layer 2 team and they have this control because they have the admin keys then they have to comply if they do not comply they get thrown in

jail so this is the seriousness of the situation here and this is why we need to decentralize everything as quickly as possible and as i said yesterday i'm not just talking about the smart contracts i'm talking about the front ends i'm talking about the uh the the the rpcs and stuff like that the wallets and everything just just everything in general needs to be decentralized if we want to be able to resist nation states they are the final boss they're not going anywhere they're extremely powerful right like they're the most powerful entity in the world like there's nothing more powerful than a nation state they have total power to do what they want to i mean yes there's checks and balances but i mean like these days like they have wartime kind of uh things that that they've kind of enacted they have

all these like acts i mean i know in the us there's some special acts that allow them to treat people that they suspect to be terrorists differently and they haven't applied that evenly of course because that's not what governments do and anything that that uh i guess like touches the financial system uh and allows people to kind of evade uh monitoring of their financial activity is something that the government does not want to enable and i think that the reason why they're happy with blockchains uh i guess like normally is because they're very transparent it's very easy to track people they have total view over the centralized exchange infrastructure but it's when you start going into the privacy aspect of things and when you start kind of like using tools like tornado cache is when they have a problem with it which is for obvious reasons so

we need to keep fighting we need to keep building better tools um but yeah i think that's all i kind of like wanted to talk about with regards to those two tweets today if you're working on uh products within crypto and you're not your products aren't decentralized well i mean you should probably have like a path towards the centralization for them i know maybe it's not practical maybe uh kind of like you need that centralization at this point in time and that's totally fine but just be aware of the fact that centralization is a massive point of weakness and the faster you move towards full decentralization the better off you will be because you can basically say to any you know nation state or to any authority that comes to you it's like hey i literally can't control these sorts of things now if the

nation state wants to go further and say well we're going to prosecute you for deploying that code in the first place well that's a whole other kettle of efficiency and probably a discussion for another time but definitely that goes into very scary territory and something that i guess we can't really fight against um the only way to fight that was would be to be kind of like a total anon builder which there are some of those but like i'm talking total ain't on like covering your tracks wherever you go it's very hard i worked in cyber security you know one slip up can basically ruin you like seriously the the um we call them apts advanced system threats some of them do very very well covering their tracks very very well but literally one slip up like one uh kind of like time when you haven't put your

vpn on and you leak your real ip address is all it takes for you to be brought down so it's a very scary prospect that even if you try to build completely anonymously it only takes one slip up and it's actually amazing that noam has been able to figure out who satoshi is maybe the nsa did in the us or something they just haven't revealed it but to stay truly anonymous online is a very difficult task so kudos to anyone who's able to do that but that might be the reality eventually of people trying to build this sort of stuff they want to if they want to build truly decentralized tools they may have to do it completely anonymously or do it in a country that's not going to extradite them to hostile uh places like the us and and even western europe and things like that so

yeah anyway i'm gonna leave it at that for today i think i ranted long enough there so thank everyone for listening and watching be sure to subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet give the video a thumbs up subscribe the newsletter join the discord channel and i'll catch you all tomorrow thanks everyone