Alpha Leak | The Bull Case for TreasureDAO

Transcript

welcome bankless nation to this edition of alpha leak today on alpha leak we are covering the treasure dao ecosystem along with the matic token uh the treasure tao community is extremely vibrant uh so shout out to all the treasure dao community members in the youtube chat right now uh we've never had such a strong community show up so fast so quickly to a live stream so cheers thank you guys for being here in these alpha leak episodes here's what goes down we get on a team assembly of people from a various communities and various projects around the from the crypto ecosystem uh just to give the pitch as the bowl case for that project the bowl case for that community uh why should we be bullish on the magic

token am i sleeping on magic should it be a part of my portfolio we are going to go and do a deep dive into the magic ecosystem the treasure dow ecosystem to really get a full grasp for what is going on there and i was trying to do my due diligence on treasure just to be informed about this uh interview because we got the three two of the co-founders and plus one on the show to talk about treasurer uh but going down the rabble hole it was so much deeper than i thought it was but from the gist that i've got it's a very ambitious project it spawned out of the og loot phenomenon but morphed into something much more grand and much much different uh it's in an ecosystem with some insane ambitions it's both a gaming ecosystem for web3 that and also is helping developers look

for distribution but also could eventually unfold into an open c competitor uh and so once again we are going to answer the question what is the bold case for treasure dow and am i sleeping on magic and should i have it as a part of my portfolio so these are going to be the things that we answer in today's show if you are a member of a community that is different from treasure dow and you think that the bold case for your community should be told uh here's what you need to do you need to assemble a team maybe it's the co-founders maybe it's the co-founder the founder maybe it's a bunch of community members but you need to assemble a team you need to put a an agenda together to help me do my my due diligence so i can host a good show and

you need to send it to me and let me know that you've assembled a team you've got the notes down and you're ready to tell the bold case for your particular project your particular community and that is what we do every we're going to do these mostly every friday but today's thursday just because of a special case but towards the end of the week is with the alpha league time to talk about the bold case for your particular community and this week it is of course treasure dao's turn the second we've ever done on one of these things the first being the maker dow show we did last week so we're going to go ahead and get right into the show but first we got to let you know about this nft drop for charity for good coming out of the mac cosmetic brand they are doing an nft drop that where

100 of the proceeds goes to hiv youth hiv and aids awareness and the art the nfts are coming out of the iconic keith herring so if you like heath herring you could have some keith herring nfts there are three different tiers there are 5 000 red nfts that for 25 dollars 250 blue nfts for 150 dollars and uh 25 yellow nfcs for a thousand dollars and again 100 of all sales and all of the resale fees goes to supporting youth hiv and aids awareness you can sign up and get the uh and get on the mint list for on april 10th there is a link in the show notes bankless slash cc

uh bankless dot cc slash capital m capital a capital c uh and you can feel good about participating in this nft match because you can know everything is going to charity maybe you haven't found the right nft for you but you still want to participate in an nft mint so maybe this one is for you so mark your calendars april 10th again there is a link in the show notes to get all the details regarding to that uh okay guys that was all of it we're gonna go ahead and get right into the show and talk about the bold case for treasure right after we talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make the show possible arbitrary is an ethereum layer two and efficient in order to live a layer

two life a cross is the fastest cheapest and most secure cross chain bridge with a cross you don't have to worry about the long wait times or high fees to get your assets to the chain of your choice assets are bridged and available for use almost instantaneously across bridges are powered by uma's optimistic oracle to securely transfer tokens from layer 2 back to ethereum a token proposal is being deliberated as we speak in the across forum where community members will decide on the token distribution you can have your part of across the story by joining the discord and becoming a co-founder and helping to design the fair fair launch of a cross if you want to bridge your assets quickly and securely go to across.to to bridge your assets between ethereum optimism arbitrum or boba networks maker dow is the og d5 protocol the

maker dao produces dai the industry's most battle tested and resilient stable coin using maker you don't need to sell your collateral if you need liquidity instead you can spin up a maker vault and use your collateral to mint die directly with maker the power to mint new money is in your hands the maker protocol is extremely hardened and operated by one of the most experienced dows in existence they've been here since the beginning they've seen it all and so you can mint die with the assurance that your collateral is safe soon maker will be present on all chains and l2s so minting dye can take place on oasis.app xerion zapper or any other d5 protocol that you use follow maker on twitter at maker dow and learn from the oldest and most resilient down existence [Music]

all right guys we are back this is going to be the bowl case for the treasure dow ecosystem in the top left corner we've got garp garf's the co-founder and head of growth at treasure been in crypto since 2017. in the bottom left corner you're going to see peta in crypto since 2017 the resident giga economist of treasure and in the bottom right corner you're going to see john co-founder at treasure and small brains and growth at osmosis i'm now realizing that i have a few of these icons mixed up so i'm going to fix that but as i'm going to first asked while i do this uh hey what's up guys uh thanks for coming on to bankless i'm really excited to dive into treasure and hear about the bowl case for for treasure um garp thanks for coming on yeah great to be here and peta as well

thanks for coming on hey likewise thanks for having us and uh john as well thank you for coming out yeah thanks for having us uh all right cheers guys first uh i want to just dive into a little bit of your guys's backgrounds uh so i'll start in the same order that i rattled off some names garp give us a little bit more of a detail about who you are and and and how you came to be at treasurer yeah sure so um kind of like similar to a lot of people um had a friend who kind of introduced me to you know eth back in the day 2016 was too busy at work um kind of forgot about it you know went over my head was just too kind of wrapped up in things and then um regretted that for a long time um 2017 i

guess could have missed the early 2017 i kind of fell down the rabbit hole like a lot of people did i actually left my job like a lot of people was the top signal at the end of 2017 into 2018 actually tried to do a couple things in crypto with a couple of friends was loads of fun um had my first child though wife told me you need to come back home could no longer travel which which is fine and then you know i've been in kind of crypto ever since but um kind of joined treasure within the first week um again um loved buying the top so i literally became a community member joined the discord um was really kind of vibing what was going on there saw some great stuff from the community early on community with john and the founders um we just had like kind of vibed a couple

a couple of times and then we got on a call and kind of the rest is history and now i kind of look after after growth it's been a wild ride but loads of fun uh peter let's turn to you tell us a little bit about your history and how you came to be at treasurer oh yeah so um i got kind of stumbled across like ethereum and crypto in general like in the 20s end of 2016 with uh some of the ethereum meetups and so forth that were hosted by consensus uh you know started learning about things like aragon and like the crazy stuff they were building was like building essentially like their own governance in their own states and virtually uh at the time i was working like doing like game theory research in academia so studying things like option mechanisms and how speculation happens

in financial markets uh got out of that and eventually was introduced to um the guys building open bazaar and helping build some software there like mobile apps and stuff like that and uh you know like got really wrapped up into like the whole 2017-2018 kind of like ico boom started working out funds there and then you know eventually um you know it wasn't you know all the peaches and roses there so there was some um a lot of high volatility there but eventually i'm stuck in the space went through like d5 summer and so forth and um gradually opened my eyes to like nfts and especially what the guys that treasured i was doing so i joined the team a little bit later but mostly because i just saw a lot of potential with um like the

the the interplay between d5 and nfts so yeah that's my journey awesome and of course uh john last but not least give us your give us your background how would you come to be a treasurer and what's your track uh track record throughout crypto um so i got into crypto in 2018. um i'd heard about it in 2011. my roommate i was raving about bitcoin i told him it was the dumbest thing i'd ever heard and i didn't hear about bitcoin again until 2017 when it was 20 thousand dollars so i realized i'd made a huge mistake um and then i got really into d5 in 2018 and 2019 and then slowly started getting more involved in the space as it was eating up my time i was a statistical analyst before that

i started writing articles in d5 and then i got a really lucky break last summer when sunny agrawal offered position and growth at osmosis which was about to launch um and then uh co-founded um treasure last september awesome awesome okay thank you guys for uh and actually i i want to get into treasure of course because that's what this episode's gonna be about but first um two of you guys are anons john you're not an anon but two of you guys are uh why why anon uh garp let's start with you yeah i think like the the original um kind of reason for that was because um i was working at my old job at the time and so you know i was kind of doing two two things at once i guess uh working from home kind of facilitated that um i was working you know kind of corporate

strategy um winning like a big kind of company probably uh not advisable for for me to also be kind of apping in and doing all things kind of crypto at the same time um i was making work i was working probably like ridiculous hours um but yeah i guess it's kind of been a continuation from that i suspect over time you know i will um become doxxed which you know i'm sure it will like progressively progressively happen anyway but that's just kind of the genesis genesis of it yeah gotta keep the shenanigans away from the employers while you were wearing a suit and tie yeah exactly yeah uh peta uh why why anon oh um like i'm semi-dogs so like if you dig um deeply enough you'll find out who i am but mainly like i just wanted to keep the focus on like the team and like

the things that they're building and stay focused on um you know like building what we're building instead of you know getting into fights on twitter and so forth so yeah that's the main reason yeah sometimes i definitely envy you guys for sure um all right so let's go into it and for for people that have never heard about treasure before or even the community experts on on treasurer who you know we can all refine our mental models and our understandings uh a little bit when you zoom all the way out what is the most concise and easy way to explain the product and vision for for treasure john i'll throw this one to you yeah so the idea behind treasure is that the metaverse is an economic layer more so than a visual one so we're all from d5 backgrounds as we

mentioned and then we when we got into nfts we noticed a lot of people were talking about the metaverse as you know a 3d thing or vr or ar but to us it's more just a digital economy it's the basic infrastructure so you know you have resources that can be purely imaginary but if people can build goods and services on top of them in the form of games or nfts and then now we see dao scaling to the level of like actual content and infrastructure providers then it doesn't really matter if these things aren't you know true material resources the economy is real and so the way um we kind of think about it is that the metaverse is something that users have to build through collective storytelling and imagination

it's not a product that a company can just sell to you and then you buy like the community has to actually build it together and so our community is built around the magic token which is this um [Music] yeah it's the resource that powers all of the worlds and also our organization itself all right cool cool cool uh i have more questions as a result of that uh but i think that's what the rest of the episode will be can you john can you just speed run us through the history of treasure dow uh because i from what i've gathered the the vision for what it is now was not the same vision that it started off with can you kind of just like speed run people that haven't been paying attention to treasure through the history so we can get caught up yeah um we started off as a loot

derivative um and if people aren't familiar it was this um pretty genius project by someone named dom hoffman coming on the podcast oh nice that's awesome yeah in my mind dom invented the metaverse people hadn't really thought of it as this thing that has to be built in a bottom-up way you know when you hear people talk about ethereum is a general purpose blockchain loot was a general purpose set of building blocks and a lot of people were making derivatives and i had the idea to do it with resources and if you look at the original treasure cards they weren't very well picked some of them have like cow and donkey on that but the general idea was okay let's just distribute

the materials that people can build economies around and um you know over time that that thesis is kind of borne out where we see that um a lot of metaverses are now choosing um to have native monies because it's very very hard for a metaverse to exist unless the community can kind of agree on what it even is um and so that that's what um magic uh does for us and the way we think about it is it's like it's the difference between um a ledger and then a consensus protocol so you know a ledger just shows like the canon like this is what occurred and then the consensus protocol allows you to um actually add new things to the

canon and so magic is what the dow can use to subsidize what it believes is um part of the treasure metaverse but anywho this all came about like over a period of time and it started much simpler with just the treasure nfts and then i had the idea to do the magic token like okay what if we just use the loot formula and create a token that has no real purpose except to basically bridge the metaverses at the time which were the most popular in that vein it was loot in a gold and treasure i really had no idea or planned for where this was going to go and we just wanted to see if it could be like a community building experiment except pretty much luke was just a genius blueprint for um community formation and

luckily garp showed up he was like the first person who um came in to the fold really and he became a co-founder after two weeks um all the tokenomics um were invented by garp and garp had the brilliant idea to make an ecosystem fund which over time like we realized oh wow like we made a money for our organization and we're driving value to it by letting people transact in it and then you know since we have 30 percent of the supply in this ecosystem fund then that's like allowing our organization to be powered through this currency more and more people came um and just took this idea where you know we were one of the bottom ranked tokens on dextools because i didn't do a very good job with the tokenomics and

slowly it the whole thesis started bearing out where the community could take something like this and then build a story around it so someone named end who is now our product lead for bridge world and then peta and just a huge group of artists writers economist slowly came and just breathed life into this you know incredibly simple germ of an idea so i think what i just heard is that we with the whole loot phenomenon where dom issued these nfts that were like inverse versus what people were expecting where the data about the nft is actually inside the nft rather than a jpeg that's that's on the outside of the nft the loot really flipped everything on its head and allowed the metaverse to

be rendered at the periphery rather than have like you know a visual representation that was the cool thing about loot but then uh people realized that model was really cool and then a gold got minted to all the loot holders and some loot derivative holders and that was supposed to be the bottom up chosen currency of the metaverse but i think what i just heard you tell me john was that it was actually ended up being magic that was the the token that was chosen to be this bottom up because you said that it was issued without any single like real purpose and that's kind of what gold was and also that's what loot was uh initially it was like hey we don't really have a game for this but we're going to issue it anyways and see what the community does why did magic

win when a gold didn't well i actually so loot didn't pick uh magic um right um i kind of wanted them to and then so everything that's come after that like bridge world and um small brains these were just proofs of concept like um uh i was thinking the other day like when you buy a printer there's a piece of paper in it that shows you what the ink would look like so we just had to make the pieces of paper to show you this is what our printer can make um but a gold in my mind was not distributed well because like the reason the resource can can catalyze metaverse is because people are fighting over it and it the um you build the story around the emission and they emitted the entire thing

um at the beginning and so like what i don't i don't know what kind of story you can write around um that yeah i think probably just like kind of jumping in as well um you know one of the the great things about it was you know obviously kind of fair launch um it brought in a mixture of different communities um from you know the i guess the nft world with a little bit of deep um as well but just like that that whole notion of the bottom up and just being very open um leaving it to the community to kind of build on top of uh and then i think we just kind of hit it a little bit lucky you know even even myself kind of came in um with the notion of hey you know these are resources we can really kind of run with this we can take this

and kind of build it out and if you have enough people who are really passionate at something like you can do amazing things and i think that's kind of what happened thereafter and just like i guess the the other evolution of it was you know the first phase was really around social coordination and kind of proving out that you can um give something value if enough people kind of believe in it and that's how a lot of things of value you know fear currency got like all these other kind of resources actually kind of come to life um and then i think john's point around you know the kind of the piece of paper where you're kind of validating that is really good one in the sense that if we're trying to kind of validate um or prove out that magic is monies so to speak um one way that we

do that is by kind of seeding our own projects so bridgeworld um which is kind of you know one of the core sources of magic itself and even our treasure nfts and we kind of push it out we're distributing from there into our other kind of array of partners and likewise small of us but on more of a kind of a versatile side of things you kind of see like we're bootstrapping um the adoption of magic which is then kind of galvanized through the marketplace which legitimizes its um its kind of use as monies on top of all the other i guess utility and function that we kind of build out on top of that and you can see that just through the number of different you know partner projects derivatives etc that are all using you know magic as monies and recognizing that building in magic token

sinks yeah so it's really trying to you know incorporate utility into the magic token by building out these various ecosystems that all depend on magic as a currency is that is that the gist yeah it's sort of the thing that binds them um you know we it's the opposite of other tokens where its moneyness comes from the certainty of its emissions and for us we want this thing to be the emission rules to be incredibly dynamic and change over time because the dow should be um you know pushing it towards new worlds that like allow the story to evolve but also the organization to become more um financially sustainable and

it's you know to us the thread between many metaverses is is the resource struggles occurring between them the threads between many metaverses okay so the the gist i'm getting is that there's there's a magic token which was fair launched via kind of like a yam similar staking mechanism where you didn't really have to do too much other than just like stake some of your assets and the assets were chosen were like a golds loot bags a few other things that i'm forgetting and it was just emitted fairly that way and the emission is i think the critical difference that you indicated between aegold where a gold was just like birthed all at once and distributed and said magic was more slowly emitted into the ecosystem which helps kind of

generate some sort of like energy some sort of momentum behind it uh and then all of a sudden we're starting to get some uh utility and adoption via bridge world small small verse and i think a few others which we'll probably talk and talk about as well uh but you know more and more utility in addition to the emission which kind of riles up a community you're also adding utility to the magic token by creating these ecosystems that run on the magic token and like the bowl case is a little bit uh about more and more um uh versus flavors of the metaverse coming and latching into the magic uh underlying structure the magic token uh and then kind of latching on to a community as well and all right like the rest of the

already existing metaverse that's built around the magic token am i tracking so far yeah yeah i mean the bull case to me is that most of these metaverses are i think are going to go to zero just the same way that like um people stopped playing video games because they're nicer looking ones so you know like loot we're not trying to build a front end to a metaverse we're trying to build the piping underneath it and um you know these things are being these dowels are going to become enormous because they're going to go out into the world as like brands and iconography and they'll actually become the organizations that can become the content producers for the next generation and it'll start as nfts but they'll just snowball if the

if the organization is designed well and the community shows up to shape it and i think that emission feature of magic is probably what allows for energy to be uh tapped into in the future right so a gold was minted all at once and then boom it kind of ran out of steam because it didn't really have any power they didn't have any gas left in the tank but the emission schedule for magic is like all right we've got a lot of like energy left in the tank uh you you said that you know a lot of uh metaverses will go to zero in the same way that games went to zero because people stopped playing them but if we can have an emissions schedule uh we can uh uh the ecosystem the magic ecosystem system can adapt to different tastes different metaverses and allow it to be flexible into the future

as demands for what a metaverse actually is in the future also changes is that also right yeah yeah and yeah because we can actually financialize myths now if you think of how important culturally myths and stories are just to the our whole societal organization and now we can actually make assets out of these things um and that'll just be these these kinds of financial assets we're just now beginning to experiment with them but they will be towering like in their adoption i think i think the um and just kind of add on to that as well the other thing is that we're we're proving out that it is recognized um as you know a store of value one um within our own ecosystem like two just like the the volume through the treasury

marketplace that we've been able to kind of generate you know like 300 million plus um on our gym like the largest by orders of magnitude and just the number of partners and just the community members who are willing to kind of build on top of us and again recognize us as money just further validates that um and then because we are all about an ecosystem or a network we're basically trying to you know increase the gdp so to speak um of this ecosystem so we're not relying on any one uh in particular you know cartridge so to speak in that you know decentralized nintendo there are many kind of that will come and go and just like games there will be some that work some that don't um and and that's fine but there's a unifying factor and you know being able to bootstrap another partner project into an existing

community or community communities um bonded behind not only just like magic as money but just the the vision um of what we're trying to build is something quite powerful and then as kind of john mentioned kind of bringing that to life through this nearly this infrastructure layer so you know we provide the tooling uh with the viewers to provide the tooling and kind of the infrastructure to allow people to nearly plug and play to kind of build on us um to make us the easiest to work with um over time and then we kind of turn that into apply where we're reinvesting the monies that we're kind of generating from that and our internally seated projects back into you know creating more common infrastructure more project etc and i guess you know the flywheel continues to spin so when i was um looking around at other

youtube videos and other articles people would give me the line that magic is trying to be the nintendo of the metaverse and i was like what what is that what the hell does that mean like that's just some marketing but like when you when you just said garp that you know you can like pull one cartridge out and put another cartridge in uh it starts to make sense using this model of like uh you know the mat the magic is the actual physical console where you know it's got all this it's got the structure it's got the energy and you just plug in your particular flavor of the metaverse uh if you want to play that or you take it out because you're bored with it and you add in a different one is that is that kind of the deal is that the the gist of it

yeah that's a really good way of thinking about it um and i think the other thing is uh ultimately you know we want to get to like one million plus users right um axes done an amazing job they're by far in a way got the you know the highest kind of dius that's something to really aspire to and you know that's something that we want to get to too and we're you know very conscious of early adopters in crypto are generally financially incentivized but we want to be able to get to a stage such that you know the the things that people are engaging with that they're playing are genuinely fun and there will be like different set segments of users um so some people will be really into bridge world and that's kind of our core there'll be others who are really into small bus um but then there's games like

butterfly which kind of caters to you know a lower end of the kind of the associate in terms of like financial needs to kind of get in there's also peekaboo which is another kind of variant of that so ultimately we'll have this ecosystem in the same way that you want to play on nintendo and there's many different games rpgs real-time strategy all that kind of stuff you'll have those options but it'll all be unified by a singular kind of ecosystem and um one currency um which kind of connects the others together but importantly and i think this is one of them the most important parts is that we're taking a very kind of composable approach to all the entities within the ecosystem so when we work with people we're actually saying okay how can you if you've got nfts within your story how can we connect that you know narratively

um with not only our games like you know bridgeworld as an example but also with other partners to really deepen the network effects um so you're actually creating kind of layers and layers of demands on top of each other so it actually does turn into like you know as you kind of mentioned before like this um this nation state so to speak um of interconnected parties yeah and it's um the nintendo thing for me it's an organizational level like nintendo chooses which games and and builders to invest in and that's what uh magic is like the dao should be um you know you read about the early days of the nintendo company they made these playing cards that were used sort of in um like um clubs and things like that and then the um grandson of the founder i can't remember who it is he's

the one that like created nintendo as we know it made a decision to pivot to these new kinds of like technologies and that's what the that's what these dowels have to do and magic is the lever that can be pulled the money is like um the lever that allows it to um yeah to start not only choosing what's real inside the metaverses but also like what it what it does as an organization i think the vision for what you guys are illustrating uh i'm super aligned with because a lot of people just like maybe not not a lot of people i think it's a mistake to think that somebody can just like build the metaverse in the same way that like we had like there's the ready player one thing like there's just one canonical metaverse and everyone just goes into that one what

you guys are illustrating is that there's the verse is much more modular which makes way more sense to me as in there will never ever be one single metaverse you're not ever going to be like i'm going into the metaverse you have to really say i'm going into a version of the metaverse that happens to be you know bridge bridge world or small verse or whatever or something you know the yuga uh board a yacht club version of the metaverse there won't be a canonical one but what you guys are building is trying to build the hub i think for uh appending all different flavors of the metaverse into one central hub because that's really how you get um persistent objects across metaverses right where if you have an object in one metaverse and

it needs to trans transport itself to a different metaverse you guys it sounds like you guys are starting to build out some of that technology uh in the magic ecosystem is all this correct yeah yeah and uh peta can speak to like um our harvester games concept that we're gonna roll out soon but yeah that that's a good way of of thinking about it is that you know these why would you want to be a single node outside of the network it's it's like ethereum and in a way you know d5 is composable and you want to be linked to these other protocols it wouldn't really work if these were just on their own islands um and the same should be true for metaverses this is it's like you know to me these dows are actually going to be bigger than blockchains because um

this human base layer of like collaborating and creativity and then financialization of organizations blockchains will just be instruments and the base layers just the people um that brings up a crit qualm or critique that i have which is why would it be magic that is the hub of the metaverse and not like some l1 blockchain but i think we're gonna have to come to back to that later because i know you guys have a lot to say on that i actually want to start to dive into bridge world because i think if we want to start to talk about the actual ecosystem the actual in addition to the token because you can anyone come into token minting tokens are easy that's the easy part but it's actually building out the actual verses themselves that is the hard part and i

think bridge world is the first part of the magic ecosystem if i'm understanding things correctly that would be the first place to start is that right yeah that's correct so like um i guess with like bridgewald um like if treasure dao's goals incubate games and supercharge their growth with magic emissions and treasure resources kind of like the decentralized nintendo thesis then uh bridgewald's goal is to mobilize the economy that gives these resources value build d-fi infrastructure and other kinds of infrastructure for them and provide games in our ecosystem with like a common economic framework through which they can integrate interact and also compete with one another and tournaments open magic commissions so it's kind of like we bootstrap them we've seen them grow up and we provide

them with this in-game meta game through which they can continuously interact and engage with so that gives kind of like all these games that are coming through our ecosystem like ongoing engagement for the communities i think it's really important for us to be able to think about the long-term kind of like um like the dynamics of how communities stay engaged in within our ecosystem um so i guess like what kind of game is bridge world so like bridgewater is a game of strategy it focuses on resource acquisition through social coordination so we have you know guilds forming coordinating with each other acquiring resources and there's also elements of geopolitics there so um like with guilds and games in our ecosystem they acquire users resources they create and forge

items and consumables and then they have to deploy them strategically in these contests over harvesters which are basically like concentrated magic staking farms that people basically fight over so um the way we think about it is like um social coordination is like really important for uh helping people stay engaged to these members economies uh so we have like you know ways to help people stay engaged at the guild level where they coordinate compete for missions but then there's also kind of like global level dynamics for instance in our game uh aggregate staking our magic mind powers up the world it unfreezes time in our game and then slowly uh the features such as like questing summoning crafting begins to

unfold and speed up and uh the idea is kind of like we want to get the community to think about like coordination as a whole and we have problems designed such as like treasure in the comments type problems where the aboriginal midworld begins to slow down it begins to freeze uh yields decrease drop rates fall items start to decay and break if that coordination starts to fail so it's kind of like a way to um make sure that bridgewater has kind of like a dynamic inflation inflationary kind of cycle which i think is important for long-term sustainability um but building upon from that is that we're building kind of like uh infrastructure for um different groups

of guilds and nft collections to basically compete over the harvesters so these are like as i mentioned where they're kind of like sushi pools with concentrated yields uh nft collections can like stake in them then boosting yields so right now we have like the legions collections soon after we're building for like different collections such as like the smalls and then some other ecosystem games like battlefield to be able to compete fight over harvester and then take over that pool and also stake their nfts so we're kind of creating this dynamic where different nft collections can enter the ecosystem and have skirmishes over these pools and magic staking pools so it's kind of like if you want to draw the analogy from my dune like you have these harvesters crawling around and

basically different um like nations or nfc collections fighting over it so i guess the way we look at it is kind of like collections on nations there's interplay between guilds and games there's collective bargaining between guilds and games and their ability to exert influence and how bridge wagon the treasure down metagame evolves and um i guess the way we think about it is how we design on a macro level um the ability to engage and foster cooperatives to behave in pro-sexual waste to help grow the treasure down ecosystem so that's kind of like a rough overview about it um yeah so let me get some questions in because uh is it it kind of seems like this is the meta game of the magic ecosystem as in

i'm getting into just that like the uh the bridge world is like the hub of everything is that correct yeah like sorry just let me elaborate on that uh it's not just a one flavor of a particular metaverse it's not like one game it is like the connecting uh central hub between all the other metaverses and it's where like there's this meta game between the other metaverses being played yeah that's that's correct so it's kind of like um i guess the default analogy is like with curve you have curve the protocol and you have all these other guilds playing the curve wars kind of game competing against each other we're kind of structuring a little bit different so it's not as like kind of like free fall but rather um

games in our ecosystem are participating as um as like the participants in this medicaid yeah and they're basically um what we're turning it into is kind of like almost like a contest framework so that's um some game agnostic eventually evolving to something that's probably more like esports tournaments and stuff like that between games at the early stages it's like um it would just be basic staking games so yeah uh okay so i'm gonna go ahead and guess that judging from the youtube comments right now that the treasure hunter guild is the most powerful guild did i get that one right i think that's just someone chilling uh it's more than one person let me tell

you um there's two that there's actually quite a few i think there's you know 12 plus in total um and it's been quite it's quite crazy in terms of the vibrancy of the of the community um just initiatives um guilds etc there's one um that's kind of come about because so the mdd or magic dragon guild a bunch of kind of you know defy uh kind of experts been around in the game for a long time um they built out you know really interesting kind of pooling mechanism such that you know people can pull and leverage group resources it's probably one of the first to kind of pull that together um they've been able to pull in you know some pretty amazing tbl at the start um you know we've been speaking to them around like how we can continue to kind of build out tooling together um

because ultimately and a lot of them are very og treasure people they're trying to build for the longer term um like eyes was clock snatcher who also kind of teamed up with one of the other games called butterfly are trying to do the same thing so we've got these like really talented highly engaged very passionate people trying to build out tooling in a lot of ways which again just kind of further validates um i guess the overall thesis i think probably just the other thing to kind of touch on that peter discussed as well kind of think of like bridgewell was the origins so to speak um that's where a lot of the concentration of the the magic kind of resides and even the treasury nfts and in a lot of ways they're actually we're using bridgeworld to seed and nearly validate these other partner projects coming in so you can

kind of think of if you're contesting for magic emissions through these types of battles you nearly kind of like validating um that partner project in some way because they're able to now you know grab this resource which is now collectively um agreed as having value um and so the extent to which you can do that and then overlay in like deep books with their nfts within bridgewater itself and then bridgewall within their own ecosystem you've now just you know appended uh another project you've like given life to something and that's how you kind of build up this network and it becomes quite large over time and that's like the the network effect kind of thesis in a nutshell can we can we dive into the harvesters because i want to understand that mechanism a little bit better so i'm assuming there's there's this is part of the magic emission so

there's a certain amount of magic to be harvested uh and then that magic can be harvested in a particular by via a particular mechanism can you explain that mechanism whoever can explain that best yeah so um so harvest is there they're kind of like concentrated pools with concentrated yields that guilds or games themselves can control like you construct stuff you stake them in those pools and then you get to enjoy my boosted yields on that you can boost it by adding and staking nft collections on them and uh doing other in-game kind of items actions and not creating items for them but overall like um what we're building towards is the ability so imagine what sushi pulls that if you can kind of like as an nfc

collection take over one and then challenge each other for pools and be able to stake in them so what we're building towards with these harvesters is like contests that are kind of almost like a tournament uh or a contest framework between different guilds and games so kind of like olympic games of game five right um and the idea is that once we provide the economic kind of like infrastructure underlying these contests then we can change the game formats which are being played so it's kind of like the nintendo cartridge analogy so right now it might be like stating games king the hills kind of battles but eventually as we you know get more resources and build higher quality games maybe the game format can change and how do

nft like i think you harvest these with nfts correct you harvest it with a combination of staking magic and nft so the entities are multipliers they boost your ability to harvest yield for a particular guild for a particular guild so right now it's like legions because like that legion is the main collection for bridgewald but as we open up and integrate more collections like say smalls they'll be able to challenge the legions for control over one of the harvesters and then once they obtain control they can stake smalls okay and then how does an external project can you walk me if i'm an external project got some nfts uh i would like to be hooked into the magic ecosystem i think what i need to do

first is to find my way into harvesting i think that's my first step i think is that correct and then if that is correct how do my nfts become part of the magic ecosystem so they can be enabled to harvest yeah so with that like we have a few games that are basically um they're building their collections and then they're they're building up a treasury of magic and nfc collections to be able to stake and earn more magic and then as they get more involved they'll be able to craft like parts that use to you know build harvesters and also challenge for those harvesters so essentially it's like we'll we'll provide a path for external collections and games that want to integrate to build up the treasury and then be

able to play this game yeah i think probably the other thing is um because you know we're relatively early on um in the piece in terms of that and so like harvesters as a construct is like somewhat complicated on the back end um i mean like you know peter's done an amazing job um together with end and you know our devs and kind of bringing this to light and we're still kind of refining the mechanisms but you know we've also kind of launched another framework like an ecosystem integration framework to help onboard partners so if you're wanting to get you know involved in some way shape or form with the treasure ecosystem we've got like a grants program now so we can help kind of bootstrap you from like an opex perspective that that kind of makes sense but then also emissions as well and so we kind of sit down with these

kind of different partners to kind of work through the the token design to ensure that there's you know really solid token token syncs in there like from both sides one from like their own just mechanics actually makes sense and then two the integration you know with magic and then kind of three kind of extending that to the the broader like network of games that sit there and that's kind of one of the key things and then ultimately like the actual game itself actually can stand on its own two feet it's generally fun to play and people will engage with it and so that's kind of like the first step in the door once you kind of legitimize that um then you can start to kind of fold into i guess the more sophisticated harvard harvester side of things i guess one of the hardest things that you know we've

been kind of grappling in grappling with is that because you've got so many interrelated parts and so many you know people coming from different directions that trying to find um balance um particularly of value and of recognized value of all these different assets is incredibly challenging and so if you kind of just let people go for a free-for-all you'll have these kind of massive kind of inconsistencies in your arbitrage opportunities we don't necessarily want to kind of just unlock the tap of that just yet we're kind of taking a crawl walk run approach if that kind of makes sense so we're kind of going releasing a bit of a framework working with the ecosystem builders kind of refining that seeing what works kind of tweak it again uh to move it into something you know that we can really start to scale out right so going back to the nintendo

analogy like nintendo didn't just open it up open up the doors and say hey anyone come build a game they were probably highly selective highly curative and only picked quality and onboarded each one game at a time as nintendo was ready for that is that kind of the the gist here i think at the start yes i mean you know we operate in web 3 where technically like anyone can just build a game and say hey i want to use i want to integrate magic or treasures into the ecosystem there's nothing kind of preventing someone from doing that but i think i always find it's it's better if we kind of work together around doing that because it's just you know the design is a lot more kind of thoughtful and meaningful if we can do that so it is somewhat more curated in that sense

particularly to the extent that you know we can help them uh as well so we still you know we have limited and finite resources we've got our first kind of cohort which will be probably released next week um which we're kind of really excited about to kind of build that out and that's nearly again going to be this kind of iterative proof of concept um that we're saying hey we're kind of trying to validate this what works and we we can kind of just you know to your point before it's very modular we can tweak it but we're not solely relying on any you know any singular project because we are creating uh that network okay i think this is the the last question i want to ask before we uh get on to different subjects but uh i think it was peta that um

alluded to this how the uh the bridge world changes over time uh and the i think the met and i'll put this into my words and peter you can check me if i'm wrong but like the the there's a certain emission schedule there's certain parameters certain rules for bridge world but then it changes and that's like changing the meta of if this if we're viewing this as an mmorpg what you're doing with these changing ecosystems is you're changing the meta and you talked about how it's key for sustainability what showed up in my my brain when you said that was like kind of like a changing of the seasons like going from spring to summer it's like growing in a healthy season but then you got to contract and you go from like fall to winter is that kind of is that what you were alluding to was i

catching on to the right thing there yeah that's 100 yeah that's smack bang on on right on the dot you know it kind of goes back to some like the founding articles that i kind of discovered from like written by the team before i was you know working there um you know they have these articles that you know basically outline their liquidity as time liquid liquidity seasons and so forth so kind of like tying the game mechanics back to like the overall health of the ecosystem and then adjusting levers in a way that makes it more sustainable so if there's over inflation we have like global mechanics that slows that down pulls the levers back and then having like checks and balances between like the guilds and long-term stakes to be able to help control that and then uh with the idea of that you know we can

smooth out some of these um fluctuations in the economy yeah i really really like this model and um this is something that uh a concept that i think a lot of people should be paying attention to because this happens to crypto at large uh in the 2017 bull market it was like the crypto industry this very very nascent crypto industry had an insane amount of just like fertilizer water and sunlight just dumped onto it before it had even evolved into becoming a self-sustaining ecosystem so we had all these like weird non-functioning plants that were growing all over the place because they were this is the ico mania and then the bear market came and all these non-functioning plants came and got like wiped out and then you know the ecosystem almost died like ethereum almost died in 2018-2019 but like we had the unit swap grow we

had maker dow grow and then we had the d5 summer season where like the sunlight and the fertilizer came back but now we have these really good plants and like understanding crypto from like the lens of biology i think is really helpful and if you're telling me that like uh the magic ecosystem gets shaken up every now and then and like the the the it gets the fat gets trimmed and like things got to stay healthy and not get out over at ski tips and got to maintain competitiveness uh if that's the motivations behind this i i think that's super elegant i think that's great yeah that's like what we're aiming for like um i think um a lot of the especially with like a lot of the farming kind of opportunities the mission schedules and so forth it's it's not really like they created with some

degree of long-term like thinking in mind but really it's like well what's the end game here like can it last 10 years can last 20 years and so forth so having something that has cycles of light booms and busts i think is probably the design that we want to go for i think yeah and that's one of the kind of key parts like there is just like a natural dynamism with social interest interaction right like people evolve times change like there's a matter that kind of shifts um all the time and we need to be very open to that and kind of go where the where the kind of the the narrative goes you know within the broader context of what we're trying to shape i think like back in the day where everyone was like you know coder's law you can't change anything um and it was incredibly

rigid whereas i think we're trying to take a much more kind of modular dynamic approach if things need to change um you know we will change it you know based on data based on the community feedback um but you kind of you do need to be very open open to that and just kind of you know be fluid like water so to speak all right guys uh we've already covered such an insane amount of ground so far but there's a lot left to cover i want to circle back around to the long term vision for the magic token i want to ask you guys about this nft platform that i hear that you guys are building and overall kind of just give my take as to like what you guys are are building we hinted at it a little bit uh in the nation state model but i kind of want to

dive into that a little bit more also there's a community video that we've got queued up and ready to go so that is about to come uh and so all of these are coming in the second half of the show before we get there though i'd love it if the chat just spammed the word el uh what is it what's uh treasure hunter guild if all the treasure hunter guild members can just spam the chat because chat activity helps this video get uh up to the top of youtube so do likes and so do subscribe so if you guys want more people to learn about magic spam the chat like the video and also subscribe to bankless we're gonna be right back in the second half of the show with a bunch of really cool subjects and goodies and that's coming up next right after we get

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whole treasury ecosystem um yeah i'm small dev uh small verse started as small brains um last fall and um i was uh i don't i can't remember it was like a shower thought sort of thing i was there were all these nfts that um you staked and then you got a token and um i remember thinking oh well what if you know it was a monkey and you stake and then its iq goes up and so its brain gets bigger and then i wanted to do you know but magic is a social coordination game and so if the average iq of these monkeys is going up then their world should be advancing so we also had this public land that would add new landmarks for

every 10 iq points the monkeys went up so i sort of sketched this out and then i told a few friends and they were they kind of thought it was funny and that was the reaction i was going for um so we actually launched it for the treasure marketplace as a growth strategy to just try and it seemed like it could be viral as a meme and this could be a way to get um eyes on to what we were building on arbitram and then it blew up and got on cnbc um next to like compared to punks and um bacon stuff and the coolest part about that is um our whole community makes these custom smalls it's a huge part of it and the one that got on cnbc was actually a con monopoly derivative of a

small um which i i really like because um small brains is the the thing i've done in my life that i'm i'm proud of stuff like there's no pretentiousness to it it's about as smart as i think i am like and i want to just be you know i just want to do good on the earth and be an authentic person and that's like there was no authenticity in nfts at that point it was it had reached like the greed level of defy summer um the antisocialness and so we just did this thing that was like hopefully you know an organic community forms around it and and that's what i love about the small derivatives is it's like we're not gonna you know it it would be a betrayal of like the small ethos to have someone walk into court

and sue someone else over it it should be this like little icon that just makes people happy and can yeah just demonstrate that the internet can be a way to bring people together um as opposed to you know in their truest self rather than um like self-aggrandizement or what um so yeah so it started off as a growth strategy that just kind of um created this amazing community um that that's still thriving okay so yeah yeah oh sorry i'm just gonna say like um the actual the the origins uh they're very they're right at the start as you know something i think it really kind of bonded the community it was quite a funny story um like i think originally all you had to do was to like paint a you know draw a

picture of a monkey it could be any quality it was a free mint as well as with all things that we've done you know kind of up to this point but um john i don't know if you want to kind of tell like how i got him into just the the debauchery like the funniness that kind of ensued um thereafter uh it was pretty pretty amazing but i think it brought the community together it's like really characteristic of like a grassroots um kind of look for treasure you know like this whole this whole project has been a a comedy of errors that each error led to an innovation like um we had to choose in the original treasure farm how much each project was going to get and um the end project had jumped up to like you know 3 8 or something but then it it

dropped like 90 percent in a couple weeks and so they were with those farmers were just dumping mercilessly into us and the project was basically dead but then garp out of nowhere comes into the discord and it's like here's how we say this and this is the tokenomics so that's actually what propelled magic success was this like dire moment and the same thing happened in smalls where i had been focused so much on osmosis and treasure and trying to get this project out that apparently this there was this like phenomenon of like and i guess it's still going on i don't really trade nfts enough to notice it but people will hack like the admins discord account to try and um trick people into minting somewhere else i didn't know that people did this

um and so we were going to launch it at 7am the next morning and it was taking forever and i was up at 2am and so i decided the last second like screw it let's just launch it right now and then um uh our mods in the discord thought i had been hacked and like went to twitter and said this is a scam i tried to get on a voice channel and they were all panning me saying this is a scammer and i had to make a little um you know like one of those hostage videos the next morning saying like my name and um this is me and this is for real at gunpoint yeah basically like um i'm just really small brand i think is what i said in the video uh but it brought everyone to together um and that was kind of the point of it

was just to just try and be humble and um and laugh more okay so but how does it connect into magic and like so what's the association between the small brains project and the treasure ecosystem and the magic token can you connect all these things for us yeah so those worlds will collide they are they couldn't be more different in terms of character sets and we want to show this is another form a proof of concept is that these worlds can be connected um through the magic resource and we've been slowly um rolling this out and um it's going to be they're going to be able to earn magic um soon we've just been careful kind of with these integrations because um yeah easing into them is probably the way to go

okay and so it's just like uh a version of the metaverse that's getting plugged in is it going to be its own guild is that what a guild is like there will there be a small brain guild or is that something else am i conflating two things um so when i could do a little alpha week so there's actually be small coin and um small coin we're going to do the same thing that we did with magic so magic um aggregated um four communities um in a gold gluten treasure and then what what emerged was like this fair is this huge burst of creativity because we combined multiple communities that um that were kind of struggling um to build things because they lacked the money so with small coin we're gonna actually um it's gonna be with um uh about nine collections from wire one

that includes um kaiju kings and wamaverse and um bears deluxe and several other ones and they're to come over and earn small coin and we're going to build a open composable metaverse together the idea being it's really hard for a single project to build infrastructure big enough to rival um you know companies that basically have a stranglehold on parts of uh the metaverse quote-unquote metaverse right now i don't think they're meta versus personally but like sandbox for instance um you know that's why everyone goes to polygon because of like these exclusive deals or whatnot so

like let's just get a bunch of people together and see if we can't build um larger infrastructure which is like one way that treasure dow continue growing is that you know we can add new currencies and bring and bring new builders tokens in um it doesn't just have to be um that these games utilize magic they can also utilize small coin and um we're just building a multivariate economy yeah wait so is the news of the small coin to according to the community did that dress drop just now that that was it um well that it's going to feature kaiju kings lamaverse anonymous bear stalks and several others um that will be announced soon

that's awful um those are nft collections on layer one okay uh they're gonna have their own p2e economies and um yeah so we're gonna try why did everyone in the chat just start spamming battlefly oh so yeah so battlefly is um is this amazing game from that's a partner project that actually utilizes magic and ben um who is designing that you know he's an amazing guy he came to us when our market cap had cratered to 300 000 and was willing to cut a check um right then and there for the entire market cap to keep us going because he believed in it and then um he is now building this incredible game um i think they raised

12 million and they have like a staff of 25 um to show that you know partners can utilize magic directly in game which is i was going to say earlier there's like three main ways that you know the dow will grow as a network there's like utilizing magic in-game projects like building around our metaverse like these small derivatives and then the dao actually catalyzing new networks like small coin well very cool okay guys i think there's two subjects left that i know i want to touch on one being the nft platform the second being a brand new layer one are there any other subjects that we should talk about before we get to those two uh the community piece is that uh oh is it time

uh sure sure yeah well you asked earlier like why can't someone else just make a magic token like us and and to me i try to say this like every time we do this this really was lightning in a bottle where i i had an incredibly fragile and not very sophisticated idea and then um and i'm not saying this um arrogantly next to crypto punks we're the most successful fair launch project in nfts just because we've drawn in you know literally dozens of um contributors who who took this like very simple idea and turned it into something powerful and now it does function is you know you can um you can have rival layer ones to ethereum but it would be a very bad idea to bet against a network um

with the best innovators and the most complexity um inside of it um you know and that's that's what um treasures mode is long term and yeah we made a video to just like this isn't the full extent of the community but these are people i could get last minute to just talk about what they built um with us yeah okay so uh this was a something i saw on twitter and this is actually how we ended up making this episode i was like yo what community should i cover on on bank list next on the alpha league what what a community should we go into what token should i investigate and overwhelmingly it was treasure dao and magic and i can't remember how but somebody talked about like playing a video or something and i basically tweeted out like yo whatever uh whatever quick video that the treasure community

can put together in like the 36 hours before this show happens uh i will play it so that is what is about to happen right now any last comments before i hit the play button no no go for it i'm gonna do it all right uh everyone in the youtube here this goes hi i'm aurelia and i made the design for the first legends collection my name is karel and like many i started out as a community member who built something called treasure tools a companion product to help people navigate and connect with the treasury ecosystem hi i'm pixelmath and i'm the artist who created the art for small brains i'm traveler i started in the community and then stepped up involvement to helping

found small verse projects and here product leader rituan live made a suggestion on this school back in october and got scouted by john my name is andy ammo i write lore for treasure i'm ben at one point in the first month i was fifteen percent of the total magic liquidity pool i'm timoroughi and i've helped with creative decisions and art i'm an animator director living in london hey maximi here creative director and motion designer for smallverse i started hosting weekly small talk spaces i helped treasure with my small artwork by giving out free customs for the community upon requests hi my name is tofu and i create custom small brains i'm working with the community to build small wishes i'm rabbit fly one of five core team members on the last

samurais i'm sisu i shitpost and i bring people together hey i'm cheese i initially found out about treasure when i was um foaming hard on loot and then i was fortunate enough to be like asked to help out on the front end and the rest is pretty much history i'm x day one dj in minter back when we moved from l1 to l2 i helped a lot of people hey i'm exhuman and i created the legend concept this is a non-dot eat i run a daily treasure market update called the small street journal hey i'm nathan and i go by the name ikali as a producer and a dj i found treasure dial right at launch on layer one when the project was being marketed as a loot derivative and over the next year i

became involved as a community contributor by creating the theme music for bridge world and other projects within the treasury ecosystem my name is john mann and i'm the original creator of the game of life and the current lead on the drove marketplace i met with john and the team last year during the loot derivative craze and fell in love with the ethos and community and i've been helping out ever since i joined the treasurer family for free by staking project n in the original genesis mine back when the marketplace exploit happened i built an nft tracking app to see all the nfts that got taken and allow us to watch in real time as they were almost all returned hey it's commonopoly in december after the small brains launch i started customizing people's small brains pfps what started out as one request by a community member

quickly turned into many and over the course of december i produced hundreds of custom small brain artwork bringing together projects from all around the nft space [Music] all right not many communities can put together a video like that in such short notice and that actually just brings me to a perfect next question how big is the dow and how big is the labor side of the dell like how many contributors are there and like how are you guys

structured are you guys structured as like uh are you getting incorporated anywhere or how do you guys coordinate labor good question i think one of the challenges that we've kind of faced over time is that because we have been kind of grassroots it's it's um it's been somewhat kind of chaotic it's uh if you kind of think of like an it's a pretty cow yeah you kind of start with like this little little seed and then all like the networks just kind of go out in various directions you know we are like fully distributed across the world um i'd say you know as a from a core contributor like on the on the books so to speak we're probably getting close to 30 30 plus across like all variants artists devs front end back ends like product leads growth partnerships all that kind of

stuff across across the board across the world so that's kind of one but then i'd say like the broader community guilds ecosystem builders people build tooling on top of us people are building projects and want to integrate on us uh it's hard to put a number on that i think that's like pretty large i mean seventy thousand followers plus on on kind of um twitter plus another forty five plus on um on smalls plus another like 30 40 uh in discord and then i'd say you know if you add up all the kind of the partner project as well um you know it's it's a pretty sizeable community uh and i think the key thing is not just numbers it's just like the passion that they're having it that these people are investing their time and to your point before being able to turn around such an amazing kind of

video like that um where people have you know being with us day one we've had like near-death moments multiple times but it's just like we've become stronger every time we're kind of you know laughing about it before but we've gone through like the whole thud bingo card so to speak um i've made it out through the other side um somehow um and where you know we're all kind of bonded together through that journey um i think it's pretty pretty unique in that sense it's as we like to say you can't afford community so um that's something that we like to kind of use as a kind of unifying unifying kind of theme so one thing i'm getting from you guys is you guys can execute super well but but you said you i mean you didn't say you were incorporated anywhere so i think i'm

going with the whole it's dow first how do who where's the leadership where is the coordination how is this getting all coordinated um so we we do have um we are working through kind of legal structures at the moment so that there is one um and we're kind of refining that over time i think again because we we launched first and were decentralized um we're in a much better position kind of you know regulatory wise than maybe some others that went the other way um but at the same time to your question you've got people in the states we've actually got a pretty strong australian contingent um as well which is i think pretty uh pretty rare i think that was mainly due to the time that it was launched which was 3am american time yeah

it was prime time australian time um but yeah i'd say probably in terms of concentration um various over over the states um yeah definitely in kind of um australia i've got some new zealands kind of japan across europe as well so yeah time zones is a as a nightmare in terms of tooling it's like you know standard slack um kind of discord that kind of stuff and like how many how many people in the slack for example oh more than more than that because all we coordinate our partner talks in there so probably 50 to 60.

um and then you know so one thing we had to do as an organization is when we started scaling we needed to bring in web 2 people who were extremely good at processing right yes okay that's what i'm getting at it's like where are the web to structure corporate type people or i'm assuming you guys have to have some of these types we definitely um this is like i would strongly encourage this to anyone trying to make a dow is to think about this sooner than we did like we we plucked a um amazing project manager from google who's sitting atop all of our verticals and going through and has worked out this system where we can easily see what people are working on how much time they have and then you know there's just

complexities to that kind of job that i didn't even know about beforehand and there is a value to web two people and then the people building trove which i guess we're gonna talk about here in a second are from google and amazon and um yeah webtooth web two people and there is a they aren't all with you know not these people like in general i've noticed they're the best you know that um but like web 2 and web 3 are different in that web 3 you have to ship as fast as possible and sometimes shipping speed and like staying up with viral trends is more important than how well you execute which isn't like the web 2 mentality where you you can take your time so if there's a struggle between um when when you put those two types of people

together yeah yeah but you guys definitely seem to be on the leading edge of dow coordination with the centralized mindset because this is a topic for a different day but i'm going to bring it up anyways dao's aren't daos they're dues they're digital organizations they're not decentralized autonomous organizations they're just digital organizations so you need that that web 2 sort of like corporate structure because those people are good at that while also needing that web three complexity at the edges element and it seems to be you guys have um discovered best of both worlds with this yeah we've got some a really good balance of mix i would put myself into that bucket you know i've worked 10 years plus in i guess in the old uh kind of web 2 world corporate structure so

i'm pretty kind of um familiar with that and just trying to i guess you know professionalize and polish i put polish on on the way they operate but at the same time you know i really love the the craziness and the chaoticness of kind of web 3 because you just you definitely don't see that in a lot of web 2 constructs just over engineered lots of red tape so trying to meld the best of both worlds um is a real kind of balancing act that we're still learning to this day we definitely haven't got it right um yet but we're getting in the right people um you know like the trope people as kind of john mentioned x amazon they're bringing all the rigor around that um getting google in as well um but it's just finding that right balance between you know having like

over engineering process frameworks with being able to facilitate shipping fast um not letting kind of perfect be the enemy of like shipping something good enough to then kind of iterate on and crypto has the fastest feedback loop in any industry that i've ever seen so yeah that parts are amazing sometimes too fast um but it's uh yeah you always get to know whether people like what you're doing or not and we brought in people from web 2 who nearly everyone on treasure um self selected into it so that they all had like the crypto native vibes and then the um professionalism and organization of web too so it was the uh well you know behind the scenes it maybe it looks like i can i've heard people say like you're not executing your projects but behind the

scenes i mean they built the level we scaled and what we're about to execute is um yeah i'm pretty proud of it yeah okay awesome guys um okay we're getting closer to the end here uh let's talk about the nft marketplace um who should i ask about that and uh what is it um yeah i mean i can jump in i i think you are referring to kind of trouble maybe i'll take a kind of step back and just kind of touch on the two marketplaces so the current marketplace we have at the moment is the the treasure marketplace it's the nominated magic and i think you know it's a really important kind of piece of infrastructure in holding um you know a whole thesis together because it's it's basically the nexus um for kind of binding uh all the variant kind of

deeply integrated ecosystems within one network and that's played a really vital role it also helps kind of bootstrap kind of magic and help push it through all these economies as well because it is denominated magic and then you know because they're collecting royalties with magic we can kind of work with them around how we fold in kind of token syncs so that's kind of one that's more of a curated process which is on board you know six kind of partners probably expecting a whole bunch more um down the track as well the second one is trove um by treasurer um and so that's a generalized marketplace i think one of the things we saw and this i guess partly by chance we moved to arbitrary is that there wasn't really a you know a vibrant kind of nft community there at that time um it was

still a lot of d fire kind of heavy but not as much on the nft side we kind of came over there and nearly um in some ways kind of created a moat sort of speed because there was no one at scale there so we'll be able to you know we were really able to kind of launch that and actually what we found is that people were really looking out for like what is a really nice kind of layer to leverages kind of ethereum the security of the network um but where's an option for that and we had lots of partners approaching us saying hey maybe i don't necessarily want to be integrated within within magic itself but like do you have you know can we actually get lists on there and so there was so much demand there that that kind of seeded this next

thought which is around okay well there is demand for um a generalized marketplace and that's kind of what drove by treasurer is and what we're trying to do there is all around kind of gamification um of users um into the actual marketplace itself obviously creating a really good user experience kind of catering to that but um engaging them in a way that is you know is just more than just like buying and selling kind of nfts so to speak um and then kind of weaving in um the the overarching token on token economics but that will be denominated in eth and potentially usdc as well or some form of stable so it makes it a little bit more accessible uh and it's not just p to e uh or pl or games it could be a prp's generative art like the whole uh gamut yeah and uh i was telling someone

uh this the other day that so we are the alien and alien where we burst out of the chest and we were this super fragile thing we had to run away for a while to arbitrarium um but now we're big and um we're gonna start um yeah trying to eat away into bigger market shares um when the alien comes back and trove will be like our first foray into that bigger market shares well the only other two market shares that are out there are open c valued at 13 billion and looks rare which is i don't know how large that value did but at least a couple billion i think uh really ambitious are you guys trying to eat into just a general nft trading volume market is that what the goal of this marketplace

is like you guys want nft volume on your guys's marketplace yeah it's a divestment strategy mostly for us so even if we don't take down um open c or you know i mean the amount of time we save and just to be able to have this fundraising thing where we're not having to like sell our native token otc um and then we can just use our the magic we're earning to the marketplace to reinvest in new builders and stuff that's ideal um for us but you know i think we're gonna we're gonna be able to allow collections from layer one and then we've also taken this kind of idiosyncratic bet that way or two um arbitrarium does have the security of um layer one functionally and it's um

cheaper and users love using it and um over time it's kind of you you see these collections that are like halfway committing two way or two and but they're gonna look like you know um it'll look kind of absurd over time to have not committed to to um layer two um yeah i think it also allows us to like have a mechanism to go cross-chain as well um if we need to because you know a lot of the value is still on l1 from a trading perspective uh and lots of the the infrastructure like gem etc um will eventually go across chains so the extent to which we can kind of tap into that i think is um going to be really great it just kind of adds another um kind of piece of infrastructure into this like broader

infrastack that we're building um across the board and so you know we've got our home in arbitrary at the moment we'll obviously explore kind of going forward like go where the users are so to speak um but this is just like another kind of um you know way for us to build out in the same way that treasure marketplace um did that for us as well all right well and it makes a ton of sense right because if people are going to be participating in the treasury ecosystem and as more and more cartridges get added to the nintendo or more and more metaverses get plugged into the hub the bridge world i think that's the right way to phrase it um then you're just going to need to be able to facilitate more and more types of economic activity and nft trading seems to be the obvious one um is there any

other aspects of the story that we haven't covered yet um i think that's the part and just going back to that point we said before which is around like how do we create and build the gdp of the network basically um that we're building here and the nft marketplace helps um supercharge that and it also just feeds the flywheel that we're doing as well which allows us to reinvest into projects as well and more infrastructure okay guys i think this brings us to our last topic of conversation before i share my mental model or what this whole magic thing is because i've got some ideas that i've been forming while we've been speaking and while i was doing some research ahead of time so i want to share that with the community i think the community is going to love it but from what i hear you guys are thinking

about uh hopping on to and building out a brand new layer one blockchain is that true yeah yeah what's the story there what's the what's the um what's the what would be the utility for a layer one blockchain for the treasury ecosystem well uh there are two reasons for me the first is that you know pretty much every money in crypto it gets its moneyness because it is the native token of the blockchain you'd be hard-pressed to find an example that isn't true for besides like om and temple and they've had um you know they had difficulties actually solidifying that and so we have created these like games that it would actually fit very well um if guilds were validators and like staking is a really important part of our game and so we

want to take it from just a thing that helped us decrease the float so to accomplish price stability to being you know like a literal um consensus and and then the second is that um so i work at osmosis and um the thing i really like about cosmos and i want to bring treasure into this world is that these self-sovereign chains there's such a like um just a state of play that goes on and the amount of creativity when you get to spin up new chains and think about um changing the consensus in like really original ways that i don't think people realize like how dj some of this stuff um is like so osmosis the big feature is going to be threshold encryption so what if you could have um no one knows what's in the

mempool and then these transactions um get validated and then revealed after they've been like finalized in a block form like not only is that amazing for defy um and you know it doesn't require any friction built on top it's just actually built into the consensus but it's good for gaming because it wouldn't be fun if like a guild could see what the other one was going to do they would just um you know it it eliminates the the fun of it to like eliminate the strategy and that's just the tip of the iceberg you know i've heard cosmos people talking about like what if it was a d5 chain and it was truly gasless because you're just paying out of like yield even future yield or whatever you know like um that i i like i want to be near people who who can make our organization

smarter because they're just brilliant and you know they have that attitude of like well let's just pull this out and see if the machine still works um you know it's also kind of like the um you know the final piece if you kind of think about it in this kind of bottom up build started with money's economic layer proved that out through social coordination bootstrapped that through our own internal um projects kind of accelerated the player wheel by onboarding partners building our infrastructure so we're like literally building it up from the opposite way that a lot of people do and then actually ending with a base layer which then kind of solidifies and anchors everyone and if you kind of think about in the same way that you know dfk did the same thing with a subnet on avalanche but you know we've been talking about this for a

while as well but like having magic as you know helping to secure the network this again um it kind of really leans heavy into you know what bridgewall is doing through the atlas mine and what people are trying to compete with kind of extending that through to you know securing this new chain which is it just adds a lot more kind of depth to um like the utility of magic kind of going forward as well and you kind of apply that across deprived primitives that we're going to be building on top of that um and you know i have like you know this full end to end stack um which is held together by the that base layer yeah and it's sorry um we're moving slowly and not for technical reasons but also cultural ones like ethereum's advantage in nfts is like extremely strong because it's you

know i feel like we kind of started chipping away at that when uh the four prices on our nfts was like high enough for people to see wow you can actually have um nfts that can have value on l2 but you know it's it's a long battle to convince people to move their ecosystem elsewhere so from my understanding with layer twos is that they can do everything that a layer one blockchain can but they don't have to worry about their own security and so like you if from my understand my understanding is correct and i'm i think it is uh like all of these like guilds that can be their own validator all of those features are still preserved in a layer two blockchain uh and it's just a matter of the guilds rather than

having like layer one consensus they can just propose and sequence transactions and propose blocks but instead for layer one it could be a layer two so just maybe just answer the question twice why a layer one blockchain instead of building out your own native layer two uh i think they're we've just sat down and brainstormed ideas of really cool stuff people should experiment with like what if nfts were part of validator bonds or even block rewards or what if you had like the validator set um scaling with the user base um just kind of like yeah stuff that you really need to have total control to customize um the the

yeah the blockchain itself um and it would just be fun to experiment with that that's that's what the whole loot thing was it's just like yeah mess with it and see see what happens okay um are you worried that becoming a new layer one blockchain would make you antagonistic to all the other one block trains that are out there it would be like very it would be a very purpose um a very single purpose which is to have our games there and there's just no way you can really have games um without them being like basically free at the transaction level and you know we've seen polygon break because of like a stardew valley um clone so and they have like countless

ecosystems and i think all these ecosystems user bases of all these niches and crypto are going to 100x so i mean that thing is just going to continue breaking um self-sovereign chains are inevitable i think uh i mean the the treasure ecosystem is over a billion dollars in market cap but would you guys raise to uh bootstrap this layer one effort yeah i think in order to kind of do this um properly and kind of thoughtfully we we would definitely um look at uh the resources required um so you know that's that's part of our planning uh as well we're trying to take a you know a thoughtful approach obviously it's it's hard because we need to you know put it within the context of the macro environment

no one's really sure where that's kind of heading so to speak so obviously just trying to secure our runway make sure that we're still delivering on a road map without overextending ourselves we've shipped very fast as you kind of mentioned in the past but we just want to make sure that we know we are slowing down that we're doing things well um while not kind of losing that essence of kind of web three um that building out that chain we want to do that properly but also you know with enough speed that we can um get uh that kind of the the web 3 kind of flavor um to it so to speak but again not not rushing something as big as that um and finding more likely be required to help us achieve that to two to our horn there like we're we have said our nfts are cc

zero but we have 150 million in our treasury in our native token and we haven't had to do any of the gimmicks like make an llc and sell some of the equity so we're talking out of both sides of our mouth we truly were a fair launch project that i can rival um these other ones just in terms of financial sustainability yeah yeah totally um all right guys i kind of am ready to give my summary from what i understand for this whole thing but is there any other aspect of treasure or magic or anything else that we haven't touched on yet that's worth bringing up um probably just like one other thing is that um i think with a lot of the the games that kind of get built now particularly from the bottom up um they've been really good but um they're still like very

financially driven i think one of the things that people have spoken about is like creating games that are genuinely fun um and we are kind of working with with partners who come from like really esteemed aaa background games like high fidelity um and talking to partners there to build something out to really again prove out that you can make a generally fun game like literal proper playing um high fidelity um highly engaged game for for users that is going to help us cross that chasm to like one million plus users um and it can be done on treasure that's that's the thing that we're trying to prove out there um and so that's that's something that we're i'm looking at extremely closely and hopefully we'll have some more details on that yeah alpha league coming soon on that one yeah awesome also maybe i'll have to bring

you guys back on the show to have that alpha league too bankless likes to monopolize alpha um okay so here's kind of where i think that this is going and i i'm super aligned with your guys's vision of the metaverse right like it's there's not one kinetic canonical metaverse you have to build smaller metaverses and append them onto the same layer right and and with this whole magic as a currency of this metaverse and especially as you guys are getting into layer one blockchain this is moved from being well beyond a defy app well beyond an nft like ecosystem well beyond a play-to-earned game well even beyond a play-to-earn gaming ecosystem and in my

mind what you guys are building is like one of the new age nation states uh a digital nation in the clouds uh and nation state kind of incorporates ideas of like actual physical land but like in the web 3 world our nations are uh digital right they don't actually have physical land but they do have a central currency they do have a community which i'm watching on the youtube just be super energetic and there's even like this whole like kind of states model too where you have like the federal model the federal hub which i think is the bridge first the bridge world uh then but then you have all these like newer and smaller metaverses which get depended on which feel like stage right they get to play by their own rules so long as they play by the rules of the

meta state which is like the bridge verse and the then they use the currency of the of the of the the overall ecosystem the the the magic treasure ecosystem so i'm seeing and especially as you get into a layer one blockchain you guys are i think are building a what what could only be described as a web three nation you got the community you clearly have the culture they clearly have their own values and anyone listening to the podcast you can watch on the youtube and and see all the people in the comments uh and you're building out your own currency you're building out your own infrastructure with the nft marketplace and the games i think what you guys are building are a digital nation how does that land with you guys um i don't know legally what we should say

there no legally like whatever oh well okay i get to say whatever i want i know you have to be a little bit no i mean it's it is it is like a um yeah i mean a nation makes some money it's a metaphor no but i know i agree with you at a literal level yeah we're a community who made a money to represent um the value of what we built um yeah cool guys yeah like um if i can just chime in there i get a lot of inspiration from uh bellagi's talks on network state and so like what you just described kind of aligns with all that like um like geographical boards are melting away we have our money we have a community and the next step is really to create around state so yeah awesome well i'm looking forward to

joining the uh the treasurer nation state in the clouds i feel very welcomed by all the community members in in the youtube chat right now so if you guys are watching the youtube thanks for being here i always appreciate when there's liveliness and energy in in the youtube chat uh if you have not yet liked the video please do that if you have not yet subscribed to bank list i can't imagine why you wouldn't have but if you haven't just remember to hit that subscribe button uh garp john and peta thank you guys so much for coming on and giving me the the bowl case for the treasure ecosystem are there any last comments from you guys uh about treasure about magic or i don't know about anything else no thanks for having us this is one of the like you know pinch ourselves moments to get to do bank lists so we're

really grateful yeah thank you so much been uh love love being on here and having um a great kind of chat um i guess like one thing can we can we get an e from you sir i did promise somebody's been asking me to croak a lot in the youtube oh yeah yeah he's been asking me to croak but he's got to go to correct as well love it that's perfect [Laughter] all right once again garb john and peter thank you so much for joining me on this alpha league edition of bankless uh once again if you are a part of a community and you think that your community's story needs to be told you're dow story needs to be told or if you're just are particularly bullish on a token hit me up on twitter generate a team to come and explain that

bold case for me generate some notes so i know what i'm talking about and we will make a show to be the bold case for your community this was the bold case for treasure dao and for magic uh you i will let the listener decide for themselves whether they think magic should be a part of their own portfolio or not uh whether that's for them or not and once again thank you for everyone to listening please remember to like and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts you can subscribe to bankless and if you are once again on the youtube make sure to like the video uh i think i'm getting a small uh my a small version of my crypto punk uh i i think perhaps and if i do i will be happy to do stuff with that um and again guys thank you once one last time for coming

on appreciate it amazing thank you thank you hey we hope you enjoyed the video if you did head over to bankless hq right now to develop your crypto investing skills and learn how to free yourself from banks and gain your financial independence we recommend joining our daily newsletter podcast and community as a bankless premium subscriber to get the most out of your bankless experience you'll get access to our market analysis our alpha leaks and exclusive content and even the bankless token for airdrops raffles and unlocks if you're interested in crypto the bankless community is where you want to be click the link in the description to become a bankless premium subscriber today also don't forget to subscribe to the channel for

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