All Core Devs - Execution #71

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all right good morning everybody and welcome to edition 71 of the core developer meetings we'll jump right in to issue or agenda item number one the Istanbul related client updates I'm opening up Martin's tracker here and it looks like we have some new stuff we can just go through the clients and see what's new on each one we'll start with death and Martin oh yeah what's what's new as far as the any client updates or client releases

unfortunately we discovered a yeah that's about it and the issue particularly concerns minors so any minors are running one line four should not be doing that but instead of on line five or something earlier that's about it okay never mind so not tough money changes since the last time I think his merits we updated

the block numbers we've been running the deaths that we've been running so far all green and I think we'll be testing the remaining batches or some releases that are already marked as Istanbul but after we run all the tests we'll probably do some announcements for people not the final duration for Istanbul okay thank you and we have Trinity Piper we have I believe assemble features completed and we've got a release probably coming that'll support it we're not we've got an upstream thing that

we're working on getting in but we have Stendhal support I think we've done okay excellent Paolo what if you have an update for a less just basically if there's any news on client implementation stuff for the e IPS it releases so not everything is finished yet I think we working on Blake to now and there was some well those some unclear changes about I think China ID that kind of cost the slope slightly

mess yeah so so not release is scheduled yet okay and then man I'm just gonna take me forever to figure out how to pronounce this consistently Basu for me this will be a one point two point four release would be the first one under the face you name one two three has all the code in that's just not plugged into the to the built in adjacent files we have to the Genesis so you can run either in a test so we'll have a formal release

that just management that's a bit on Monday Australian time I think okay there's anyone here from parity hi David we have merged all these double P changes and we merged master today in number and not made a leaseback yet probably Monday or Tuesday I start negative with the Jason test and my aspiration is to get that into the remote work so that's why it might okay

sounds good um and I think that's all the clients so just a reminder the one of the actions from last time where that was that the cat herders were going to create a document that outlined basically what Istanbul was what the EIP is meant to people kind of a little warning about 1884 and a link to all of the clients that could be downloaded that have the block number in them so we'll wait to release that until we get most or all of the clients releases that have that block number and then we'll push that blog post all over so we can have proper support going on and more

miners and stuff switching over and things like that okay so next on the agenda we picked a block number for Istanbul Rob stone it's gonna be six four eight five eight four six on October 2nd we also had a call with Gorley and theirs was that was decided on that call to be one five six one six five one for October 30th if you go to the agenda it's the first comment offer he left a list rinkeby block is gonna be five four three four five three four five and november that was a mouthful and Kovan

is in december with one four one one one four one so we successfully got all palindromes we really know what's important in this space so the Blake to be EIP update I've been paying some people about that cuz we were wanting to merge it and I know accent was talking to some people - I think because there was some confusion about what the latest stuff was and I think the latest thing was that just that Peter had but accent can you provide any updates on that since it looked like you were the last one who was asking in the core dev chat and if

you don't have that much updates you can ask now for how people implemented it and stuff oh and you're still needed there you go I'm sorry you meant the the 2200 is that the Blake TV I'm pretty sure it is nope nope nope nope nope oh did you it was 2200 the one that you had on the court of chat that was messed up yeah the gas metering okay gets the most complex one which isn't still it's Blake

- is Blake like to be f merged I'd haven't looked yeah it was Oh perfect okay that quells my concerns then cuz that's what I was I messaged someone I think I messaged away about it and they they must have fixed that stuff okay go ahead with a net meter desk store then yeah I didn't really prepare with any questions I enlisted I think yesterday or the day before on the channel and they were like four or five comments on the PR which were left unaddressed by that time but since then I think some of them did receive some comments but it's

still not final yet maybe and Martin who was most engaged on the PR maybe Martin can give some comments on their the nut girls meeting one it's mainly weighs brainchild but I think the as far as I understand it the issue with it is that they closed about 2300 in the e p-- is in the bottom whereas and the implementations it's actually the first thing and that's an implementation should do I am I'm does that sound correct you exit yeah I think that was

the first first issue identified but I personally haven't gone through the all the steps listed there and I haven't compared it together because the first step was different right so the first step well what basically differentiates 2,200 from 1283 and yeah it should obvious the first thing that kind to us and I think all every implementation does that but definitely it should be addressed in the eat I don't know

there's anyone else have any comments about this it's the is going through him they used to generate the new test cases or which client is used for it so I think as far as I know yes the consensus the official consensus tests which there aren't that many they are I think Dmitry is using death to generate them apart from that I have generated so I released I don't continuous passing gas purchase

30 with quite a lot of invocations of a slogan a stories from various places called calls : calls and calls recursive stuff with gas as the base and and get is highly consistent with parroting over 7,000,000 test cases aside from that I was exported 10,000 just get this which I know at least some of the clients have tested because it found a hit on a zoo where they hit exactly that conditions that added claws for 2200 but they are implemented as less than instead of less

than or equal or if it's the other way around so obviously yeah so I'm quite certain that there is test coverage for it and yeah yeah would it be a good next step to to maybe make sure that the EIP reflects what deuterium is doing merging it in that form and then asking every other client you to review that and see whether they implemented it differently yes and I think some comments yesterday that it was no business trip but with

address address the concerns I haven't actually looked if he has time to do that did ya if if anyone is listening with client developer if you know that yeah I mean speak up if you think it sounds odd but I'm assuming that all of you already put that condition as the first thing you do because I think you would fail quite early I mean it doesn't make sense that it last of all okay any other comments from client depths about that

no I think that as well this store will be one set of tests we are waiting for to be extracted from this weakest half sourced from guests who confirm everything so this will be the test cases that I was mentioning okay excellent I'm browsing through the comments so the other set of questions on the PR forests were mostly about the mostly about two things one I think a while ago it was agreed that 2,200

should be self-contained it should have all the details needed it shouldn't just say that you know refer to 1283 4x and refer to 1706 4y rather than that it should be self-contained but it still has committees alike just minor I guess e IP details that is still refers to them as required ones and I think some sections may not be self-contained I'm not sure if I still won debt or not but I just wanted to raise it and the second question people had there is compared to 1283 the biggest change was to also reflect the s load gas change

but that gas change isn't reflected in the in the appendix and some other parts and some measurements or tables in the EIP it still uses the the old s load cost I think these were the two major things people were confused about so one thing that could maybe help David if you talk to weigh could you ask them about whether or not that should be self-contained since I think they're the main champion on that EIP am i right that they're the main champion Alex yes it's correct I will get some video so I

have not been able to speak indirectly I replied to the others - what you did babbling okay great perfect yeah there's not a huge rush on that from the as you know if he's on a business trip but yeah as long as it's addressed okay and was there anything else that need to be addressed from that list Alex yeah I think none of the yeah piece apart from

Kennedy in the final state and Martin also asked what is the process of moving to the final state and I think the the Dec pre-compile AIP just received a pull request to to move it to final and maybe this would be a good time to briefly cover what would be the process for being final and I think the short answer to that is AIP one defines it but I don't think it defines the process in a really good way for Corey ip's but it says that they should move through this

last call process first and and then they can be adopted maybe we don't really for all these different processes to take place now so maybe we could just agree on this call for some of them to be moved to final and I would propose that ICI pre-compiled and the coal data every pricing should definitely be moved to final because they they seem unlikely to be able any changes or I never seen anybody ask questions we complain about them and Martin also proposed to move 1884 to final so maybe we could just take a vote on this call okay does anyone have I mean I'm not

anticipating in the opposition to making those final but and also I think Matt asked that 1108 get moved to final as well and that one would be set the alt that's the alt be in 128 reduction I don't think there was anything left on that I think it can go to final so are we saying we're moving everyone that's not already final that's accepted to final except nobody hundred right I'm not sure why we don't have time to put

everything in a last call phase for a couple of days and then transition them to final if nobody speaks up like we can go through the process yeah instead of doing it for two weeks like it says we can just wait till like Tuesday or something yeah I meant if you stick to the book okay yep you want them then you don't have enough time because that stipulates at least two weeks but if you choose to do for Less based and yes yeah let's just do it for less maybe that's a less controversial way to do this not the business controversial but just that rather than having everybody vote let's make them final potentially the vote here is let's make them final after

putting them in last call or yeah call it till Tuesday or Wednesday or Zinn here yeah cuz Tuesday's when parody wants to do a release so maybe sometime between Monday and Tuesday will kind of know by then if anyone has anything brought up I'm guessing so should we make to switch it to final yeah I believe so is that yeah yeah yeah because then the the bots gonna see it's final and then an editor merges it as my understanding I haven't ready IP one in forever though okay let's see I think that went over pretty

much every EIP Bryant did have a note in here I'll paste the Cata link and chat and it's talking about for AIP 1344 there is a update on how the opcode returns a 256 bit value and that parity and Trinity might be affected by this the fact that it was updated or that there was a suggestion that was removed during the process of coming up with what EIP 1344 was so I don't fully understand it but the I think parity and

Trinity should just watch out for this update it's kind of what I'm reading and Brian couldn't be on this call but um yeah any other clients just look over that and make sure you're following the EIP correctly yeah anyone have comments or some context so the only case this would ever blow up would be if someone has private Shane where they set the chain ID to some silly large number so it's not really something we need to be super cautious about I mean yeah it'd be good if we agree it's not like a minute consensus issue okay great and then Matt I saw you had a couple of

updates in here about 1108 and Blake to be which was that 152 did we cover I think we covered kind of what you said in the comments but was there anything else we miss no I mean I just wanted a quick summary basically I we looked at actually taking everything out of DRC and embedding it first in the IP and the issue that I had is that I actually over specs VIP a few of us are using implementations that do not follow the same for example Sigma or V but but the do match the tests provided in the EAP

so that was my main I mean pushback when we actually went to update the IP the other thing we did is I just did my best to make sure that was clear that was Blake - which included Blake to be rather than rather than just plate to be and also that it's blinked to 64-bit variants in the IP so I know that it's probably not perfect but I hope that addresses the nominator concerns alright and that's on that okay great I'm trying to see if there's

anything else on here we'll do testing updates in a little bit I'll make sure we get those in well actually it's not on the agenda at all do we want to just go over testing updates now that's something that's gonna be interesting I know there was some fuzzing stuff and hive updates about the EIP it wasn't 100% clear what we're doing about last call so we're moving them all to last call until next Tuesday and then final that is correct okay okay and then yeah Martin or anyone else who wants to go first with testing updates yeah and Dimitri is not on a call but

there is some consensus tests have been made but there has been also changed in the test format so yeah both gasp parity and highways having some problems for them I think they might have been regenerated during the afternoon I am checked yet but they're in the works I mean why we're also done fussing and I already mentioned that I wrote a bit about it on the PM there is also updates happening regarding the Lib processor if

you recall we have one set of post testing that does not use introspection and doesn't actually see how much it covers and that's the JSON based and the other one is a little faster which actually does coverage measurements during executions and then modifies the input state and the data to get more coverage that's the cursor and it's running gasps versus and we're hoping to have it up yeah during the weekend or early next week yeah we have a new server for hive we just got it up in the last couple of

days and frankincense lures is working on that one and yeah there's some more updates coming so we get Alice on there as well and also another mind yeah right I'm going to add another mind testing post-testing as well and because they were nice enough to implement the standard traits Stella Jason trace outputs from status so I can't really speak about coverage from the official tests how what Chris touch is done but

from a fuzzing perspective I'm kind of satisfied so far yeah so you're looking good so far that's about it for me anybody else have testing updates or questions okay the next thing I wanted to bring up so Joe and with and with regards to testing trent's here today from white block because white block has been helping eath to with things like their I think there's a Genesis

framework coming out and some of the testing around the networking stack if I remember incorrectly and then they also did aetherium classics na school contain tests net-like testing suite and i and they had something they wanted to help with for the eath 1x testing before Istanbul's Trent you can go ahead and just briefly describe kind of what the idea was so people are aware of it as white block moves forward with that yeah sure I'll just keep it short they're still working out most of the details but I dropped a link to what we did with the if you're in classic test net it's it was just a

temporary publicly joinable test net that we post and basically proving that the hard for clients are gonna work as planned it's it's well what we imagine is like a step before doing a public test net like switching over Robson or Gurley we can do something here prove our assumptions or test our assumptions and well what we can also do with the white plug Genesis platform is what we're doing with each to doing multi client hosted test nets and then we can also run specific contracts and make sure they're gonna work specifically in the case of like 1884 we can test when

they're gonna break how they're gonna break and and just once we get a certain amount of data we can dump that out and do analysis on it and then we can iterate on that run different tests nuts iteratively one after the other and it's sort of meant to be a quick quick and dirty process at least for this what we're planning we'll have more details coming out soon about the specifics how many know is how long it's gonna run when we'll be publicly available but that's the general idea we think it'll be an interesting experiment to add onto and hopefully supplement the other public test nets question so those test nuts are those bootstraps from an

existing test so you can replay the existing transactions or the clean test nuts interesting I think they're gonna be clean but the way that the way that we have done in the past is there's a genesis file that instructs how to what sort of information to supply so that might be something we could do in the future like kickstart it with specific state and specific parameters like like that so but so I don't understand so if you launch a brand-new test nuts what is the point of I mean what is the white just what's the

difference between that I'm just launching a public tester what word well for one where we're trying to prove that what we're doing works so we're partially we're just testing our product and making sure that you can do it and then what it's meant to be as a lightweight iterative system where here you can start it up and tear it down quickly without necessarily ton of coordination from other people okay so when this is being set up just a quick in front of yesterday I set up the Istanbul air test nerd based on click protocol so I send missing the chains back on the old core devs and you can all connect I think it's already created

like five thousand empty blocks if you just connect and I can vote you in and run it and still the white block probably will be good if you can set up all the clients in the future easily and because now we have to coordinate to get others to jump on board yeah one of the other things that we've built into the product is that you can for example preload a bunch of wallets or set up accounts beforehand in a yellow file for example so what we're trying to do is just automate this process of kick-starting and and abstracting a little bit of this away yeah it to my ears it sounds a bit like this thing called puffeth which yep yeah it's so

it's it's very similar to puppies but sort of on steroids where we're hosting all the backend for used to all you'd have to do right now it's just CLI so but in the future it would be just like a web a web UI and you just click hey I want a test net of 30 nodes and I want to run this specific test case and then we'll spin it up for you and then you can introduce part of what we also do is introducing like adversarial conditions like you can pump up the latency you see if things are still gonna come to consensus you can decrease bandwidth have network partition and see if the network comes back to consensus things like that

awesome then I understand it better and Thomas I saw about the test net we started and it's really great that it did and I was hoping to get the gift note on there today but yeah there was this critical issue and yeah hope to get some either during the weekend or early next week yeah great just let me know so voted in you minor scene one question for Trent because last time we are discussing Genesis I think you had support only four already in gifts so for this setup for Istanbul do you think that you had

support for the remaining clients right now we have support for well what's relevant to to this group we also have support for Pantheon well what's it all now Basu so we we would have enough support for a multi-client test net we would have to update to the es temple spec but I I don't think that'd be too difficult just wrapping the clients in a docker image making sure they're speaking properly allows sneza mind and in the fightin Trinity I'm sorry who's

that a question I didn't catch it so when you have also the wrappers for any 20 T pallets and we currently don't have those but I can definitely look into like ideally we would support all of the eath 1x clients yeah cool anyone else have comments or questions okay thanks Trent Thank You Hudson and just reach it yeah reach out to Trent if you all have any questions on that usually it'd be Zach but um he's getting busy with his wedding and stuff so yeah just reach out to Trent let's see next up I just wanted to give there's a link

on item number four for the etherium roadmap 2020 a community discussion at DEFCON five day one so we're not this year at Def Con there's not going to be day zero one two three it's gonna be day one day two day three and day four so for day one there's not gonna be a main stage that has speakers on it it's gonna be divided by partitions where there's going to be different workshops seminars and groups held this etherium roadmap 2020 community discussion is going to be on the 8th from 1 to 5 and the convention room that has a 200 person capacity it's going to talk about the

technical roadmaps for eighth 1/8 - in the transition from e1 to e2 it has the format on here the schedule and it ends with working groups it starts with an overview and then the eighth one roadmap I'm doing a talk on 8th one X so I'll probably be the main point on the etherium 1 roadmap unless I get pulled into something and I have to find someone else one more thing to note there is a link to the full schedule of community sessions for September 8th under schedule it just says see the full schedule so that's pretty interesting to see all the stuff The Magicians have put together this year and yeah just um

let's see oh man this is editable oof I need to get locked this I need to get someone to lock this down anyways yeah so feel free to join that and it'll be oh yeah it needs to be October 8th good call whoever just edited that yeah so feel free to join and I'll probably if there's another quartet meeting before Def Con which we'll discuss in a little bit I'll remind you all of this or throw it on the Chordettes channel and if you want to help this especially if you have some knowledge that might be really good for this please participate join in there's a few people especially if you

all know Jamie Jamie Pitts he's one of the organizers so as a net I can not pronounce her last name recall vaga I'm can anyone pronounce that last name either way it's a net and they are part of the people organizing this I think also Maria Paula I know that she's at least the emcee so that's that for that one both Prague pal audits have been released they've been released for a bit because it happened right after the last core dev meeting so it feels like forever ago but if you all want to look at that you can just click the link and there is a blog post from the cat herders that has links to both the least

authority software audit and the Bob rau Hardware art audit and let's see Oh Matt just posted a cool comment about having a bunch of kubernetes infrastructure for quick tests nets that they might open source and if someone's interested in that to reach out to them was there anything else on that Matt or just simple oh no I just I just caught up with but yeah I guess for anyone who is interested I know that I know that it might also great anyone have questions on or comments on the roadmap thing the

fact that both prog pal audits have been released anything like that okay review the previous decisions made and action items for call 70 that's one's pretty light leave Blake - as like to be keeping it fixed to 12 rounds was decision 70.1 I think that might have been tweaked a little bit because one of the action items was that Alex was gonna talk to the EIP 152 champions to discuss the concerns so I think some of that might have changed we keep it oh yeah I'm thinking of a different number because I remember us staying over after

that and I remember picking the number 32 but I forgot what for and in the change yes so that actual great can someone who's writing notes take note to edit that decision within the quartet meeting seventy summary notes you can just do a PR on that any of the cat herders in here who want to just change that decision so we have it on record but that's not what happened thanks decision seventy point to the

fork of Rob's intestine is set for the second of October and the block corresponds to that date will be selected that's happened and then I already talked about action 70.1 with Alex and AIP 152 champions action 70.2 where the cat herders creating a communication that highlights the concerns around 1884 and provides it back to the core devs for a review so once we have it at a at a point where we can take comments on it we're going to put it in the awkward dev Channel for a little bit and make sure everything's good on there let's see I don't think there's any any comments about that it's pretty straightforward there's a comment

from Holger who couldn't be on the call from aetherium Jas they have a release version 4.1 points full with full-featured Istanbul support although it's still labeled as beta it does have full of stable support and then oh there's that all the agenda items did anyone else have any other agenda items or things that we missed or things that needs to be said hey guys um hey Bob so just on Prague cow just one thing to note off off discussed we had on on the

old chord ads is that in terms of the the e ip's tagged for berlin that there's been this sore just sweep of things forward such that prague cow is currently sitting in tentatively accepted I don't know you know what what the process was on that but twice I'm sorry the process was that we decided twice to accept it and then it became sensitive hinging upon that I security audits I see yeah and the security yeah the security audits haven't been fully

investigated by anyone in the core devs that have come to me but I haven't old I also haven't heard anyone bring up anything groundbreaking about the audits that would be like a showstopper either and the context of it being tentative was that it was the list of tentative x' was more accepted for berlin but we're not going to because the tangent lee accepted was for this first fork i feel at least that's where the word tentative came from so regarding investigating the honest i don't think there's anything this unique to each has the same

vulnerabilities there is one question in the least authority up suggestion one concerning about putting padding at the end of the pitch at hash i reached out to if def else on twitter and they replied that hood indicator there confident they don't need it and they explained that padding is used mostly to differentiate various versions of their apps because connect has one version of the patent with using different bit signature and the SAT 3 has a different form of padding to make sure that they are unique and it's mostly their provider uniqueness and they stated it in the context of what they're doing with the repeated use of it and you know the stuff that they're doing at the

beginning at the end of the process and it doesn't really have any security impact and that's they came forward with them that satisfies my concern that's what I was thinking because it's such a deep in the weeds thing it's not going to subject an extension attack when you're immediately going after another round with all the details on it and finishing it out pretty ok so another quick update on that I am collecting community sentiment again on that this is not a cat herders thing this is just me collecting arguments again and laying them out because there's a lot of well there's a lot of loud people or a group of loud people not sure yet because it's

kind of hard to tell when people are really loud that Sigma don't want prog POW anymore or have concerns or things like that due to some political stuff as well as a few arguments that are technical so I'm just gonna try to lay out all those arguments as soon as I can it might have to be after I get back from vacation but I've been collecting them and I already have over 55 Twitter and reddit links so I'm gonna sift through those and just put them on like a reddit or a blog post or something eventually so that'll be a resource for people to kind of look at the latest community arguments and sentiment and you know things like that there would be a process if you know

people wanted to push for a decision that's already been accepted to be changed within the core devs and I know e.t.c recently had some drama around Prague POW and stuff like that so that kind of also spearheaded part of the sentiment collection so that list I think will be useful to identify ones that are new arguments that in a sense I don't know February March versus arguments that are repeats of the same arguments I think that would be valuable signal I agree and during press which was put together a good Trello board right that was it was actually yes Scott Oh Scott Lewis

sir yeah Lou oh yes right but James has commented a little bit before on prog pal though what was that trend I was just gonna ask you know so you've spoken with the authors about the cat jack modification could they possibly write something up about that like a public address of audit concerns they'd be a little more helpful than just like a small chat in the corner of the internet that was the extent of the interaction was the Twitter things they're kind of hard to get you get ahold of so I copied it into the I copied into the prog power review room but the chat log was kept rolling and scrolling with all the concerns

about it they were being brought up again so it is in the log if we can find it I can post it again okay if you can just send me that link Dan oh I'm gonna include that because there's gonna be people who bring up the argument that I will list about the Keck access hash and at that point I can put the rebuttal statement that this is what they said all right does anyone else have any other comments okay are there any other issues besides the one we just talked about the need to be addressed this has been brought up a couple times but would the court have done this call consider

not they consider integrating prog file but not actually implementing it I'm sorry releasing it in in a good client I think until we reappropriation so from a from a process perspective I guess no but I mean obviously anyone can consider anything they want I'm not sure I understood the question but I mean profile has already been merged into parity and it's activatable and I guess we could do the same put gas but the

thing is we're not sure if we're gonna go with the same version that parity has which is - I think it is or if we should aim for Oh 9 3 it changes the parameter that how often you need to recompile the keep your kernel I'm not sure I understood what the question was I mean it gets it's broader than the technical implementation it it starts to touch on or at least what I've seen brought up is that it's a more nuanced conversation about like the transition from eath 1 to e 2 and how having frog power could be sort of a distillation to interrupt the

deposit contract or it's sort of like keeping it in our back pocket to be used later on if necessary for example if a sticks start to interrupt the network that's what I've heard but it seems like the intent is to it's already integrated into clients and once it's ready it's gonna go live to main net whereas the alternative opinion I've seen is keep it integrated but not activated until such a time as it's like very much needed right mm-hmm and you were just saying Trent well what if there was a feeling

from the core devs of how likely that would be was that the question right yeah I'm just wondering cuz it seems like the sentiment is like it's it's ready to go as soon as we've crossed these hurdles it's it's gonna be activated and I haven't heard the alternative necessarily yeah I think it's personally I think it's too early for the alternatives I mean it feels like everything's like been in forever ago but really the everyone's screaming about it was like only after bubs our audit which has been released in the last two weeks so yeah or if there was screaming about it before it kind of died down for a while so we didn't really get any major I guess I didn't collect that much

sentiment from the community enough to bring it up as an item yet up until now and now I'm collecting sentiment so that's that's my personal thing yeah yeah just do one more thought what the disconnect I'm seeing is that the core devs are approaching it technically and a lot of the outside concerns some of them are technical but a lot of them are political and it would it would help to have both sides understand each other better if the core devs specifically people on this call who are like it or not the sort of tacit gatekeepers of what makes it in or out if they

responded to those political ideas and I know some people have written about why they think it's a good or a bad idea but we continue to address these concerns where they are regarding that argument of keeping in the back pockets I can give a brief answer from my perspective sure so do I see if if say we become dominated by a sixth and then something happens and that could be for example the rollout double chains so that they

do some double stands and something happens and it doesn't matter really what but certainly okay we we need to activate proper and the problem if that happens is I think that's which cannot be done in a day or an hour it can be done my way over two weeks and once it's been decide to do that then all the existing minor infrastructure know that hey there's we're gonna be kicked out and they're going to play do whatever they want with a chain because they're their investment is going to be worthless so they can just continue to do this real role of new chains and while that

happens during that week the actual value of ether is going to plummet during those attacks and when we eventually if we ever managed to actually do the switch to probe how we might discover that there is no mining form that is able and ready to pick up and switch over to actually mine either on full full at full scale because they're doing other things they moved on in the meantime which leaves us still I mean the only ones who will actually do mining on ether particularly when the if the value plummets will be basically pump and dump

tanks that try to inflate it and dump it and shenanigans will happen so I don't think keeping it for kids is something that is going to play out well so I think that's why I think it would be better to just do it yeah I don't I didn't they want to agitate to have this discussion on this call I wasn't really prepared but that's my thoughts about it okay Daniel and then Tim I was just

going to point out some of the political discussion has been attacks on small core devs as well so the operatives are aware of some of the politics going on with it it's not like we're sticking our heads in the sand we're just not engaging in a political process because we don't see the constructive nature of what's been going on okay unintended you have something no I'm good okay bright okay so is that is that a sufficient enough answer Trent as far as kind of where we are in the current process well I I have one thought for Trent as well that I think a

little bit of a disservice to the cat herders who you know nine months ago did much of this process already and it isn't and when and at that time there was thinking about political and all those things as well like explicitly on the awkward of calls even was discussed so was trying to give a little context as to why people are bringing it up again and raising their voices just right yeah there's a new political there's new political drama in my opinion just try to bridge the different parties to understanding a little bit better okay thanks Trent James was there

anything else nope cool okay so I'll do that sentiment collection we'll keep our ears open and do to the new mostly political arguments a few technical arguments that kind of thing and yeah try to be civil about this everyone listening in because if you're loud and angry I'm gonna be less likely to take you seriously so that's me personally Bob and Matt both said they're both pointing out that and I've heard this as well that they think that frog Bob being introduced would be likely to cause a

chain split how serious some people are I have no idea but I've heard it enough times that it's worth mentioning on this call that's all and that's I think an argument Oh support when we did a minor pool with 70% participation there was 100% in support of it not a single minor took the time to do a negative vote if there was a single minor that took the time for the neighborhood in I would put more weight in that argument to be honest just yeah - that also I checked for fun yesterday in a very non-scientific way but there still and he sipped amount of minors signaling frog pal yes and their blocks so I'm not sure like what

percentage it is and and whatnot but just like randomly scrolling through the blocks it seems like the minors who are voting yes like just did not remove those votes so it might even still be able to capture that that sentiment I'd say though that the controversy is not necessarily on the mining side but on the user side I think that if there was a chain split it would be an ATC style one user rebellion and then mining building up to support that that's how I think that would play out if it did earlier this year we nearly had to change the user a billion in favor yeah that actually did happen almost and that

one was actually like had code behind it so if I see anything from I will mention it if in my sentiment collection if I see any true attempts or plans or preparations for a tight like a chain split but I mean for Kings that one of the goods great things about block chains in my opinion if you don't agree with something you can leave anybody else go ahead not good reason I would agree yes totally okay anybody else have comments yeah one final thing we do try to keep

politics out of the core devs calls it is inevitable sometimes and I think most of us have addressed that fact that it can be inevitable since we're kind of like Trent mentioned somewhat like gatekeepers in a way because we're the ones who put the code in for everybody who's running the code so yeah that's unfortunate and then Martin you were mentioning one thing earlier about how gets on nine point three right I think actually guests on nine point two according to Andrea Len Frenchie okay right okay perfect okay if there's nothing else oh we need to

figure out if we're meeting again like when cuz it's kind of close to DEFCON in two weeks people might be arriving in Japan at that time and not having very solid internet I've heard who's been to Japan is the Wi-Fi really not that prominent in Japan like at in places or is that like a lie or like something I'm reading that's old like news okay Alice other people who've been to Japan do we want to meet in two weeks I'll be on a plane so I won't be able to do it so I'll just find a backup if we do want to meet in two weeks I can't be that backup if that's the issue if

people do want to meet we can do that or we can decide if there's anything to really meet about between now and maybe the end of next week or something or the middle of next week maybe we can put up a blank agenda and see if people will just put stuff in the comments usually people don't even remember to put up stuff in the comments till the day of though so I don't think that'd be a good indication that there isn't things to talk about hmm so yeah does anyone have an opinion on if it should happen in two weeks okay

Tim will run the meeting in two weeks if there's really not much on the agenda we can just cancel it change our minds if people bring that up on the core deaf chat all right thanks for sticking around everybody meeting in two weeks same time Tim we'll be running that and thank y'all for your time Cheers thanks great job as always thank you [Music] [Music]

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