4th AVC subcommittee meeting | Protocol Scope | Sovereign Finance | MakerDAO

Transcript

foreign [Music] [Music] [Music] foreign

[Music] [Music] [Music] thank you [Music] thank you

[Music] foreign [Music] thank you foreign

[Music] [Music] foreign foreign [Music] [Music]

foreign [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] for you to understand

today's topic that it's the protocol scope so you can we're gonna share this link on the chat and I'm also going to share what you can see on the notion so this is what you're going to see so this is an option it has covered everything so if this is your first time joining us you don't even know who we are well we have uh and about us and why Sovereign Finance we have important documents for you not only in English but also in Spanish we want more a Spanish speaker to get

involved in the maker governance that's why also of course the information about our meetings it's weekly at this same time um so on Thursday at 6 PM UTC what else can you find on this notion well there are all the links to every meeting we have even the record yeah the recordings for our first meeting were in which we talked about the um endgame spaces the five phases of the end game um our second meeting in which we talked about the governance scope the third meeting our last our previous meeting

that it was about support scope and also our current meeting that it's the protocol scope so if you click in here you will find all the information the document yeah the documentation from The Forum that it's going to be really relevant for today's meeting so yeah there you have it and I'm gonna share continue sharing the presentation hello hello to everyone that is just joining and joining us and if you already know about us well also thank you for coming if you appreciate our

work and share our values please become an aligned delegate of our Sovereign Finance ABC also we have as I mentioned the important documents for you to know more about our align governance strategy okay so um if this is uh specifically if you are an mqr holder you can delegate to our current ads we have two align delegates lucky and parked shout out to them um I'm gonna take this time also to mention that um it's uh we are turning one a month I mean these The Sovereign Finance ABC today it's turning one month

and so I want to talk about the LD accomplishment that um the ABC has reached in just one month um put in some context we started without any prior experience in maker governance but of course we have prepared we have study we continue on studying we continue preparing and So within a month for us it's so it's it's a big deal that we have achieved and we have already to align delegates with a total of 13 mqr delegated um so also we understand that this is not just our success but also the the

you people the ones that come in here because it's not easy to join us every um one hour of your day and so yes um these achievements uh actually belongs to everyone so thank you um also mentioned here that in our current three meetings um we have gathered for around approximately 40 people so that is also amazing that the average at the attendance of 40 participants and so although we're just getting started we are thrilled with our progress so far so yeah that's why we wanted to mention

also okay um well also I want to mentioned before studying that today we have a special guest joining us um and it's gonna be Max that CMO of connects so we're pretty excited he's gonna bring a world of knowledge and experience in the field of bridges um of course he will be sharing valuable insights on the importance of this topic that it's relevant for for the protocol scope which which are the bridges and security and to put in some context well connect

is a leading Bridge platform that is pushing the boundaries of cross chain technology so we are after the presentation that we have we're gonna give the talk to Max so he can enline us on the talk of the bridges and security then as I mentioned today's stop is going to be the scope uh the protocol scope and so we're going to cover the most relevant information that we find and these are these nine um so we're gonna see a scoop Improvement we're gonna mention some

details on the nutrient protocol specification a two-stage bridge I'm coming developments the die stable coin let's go bootstrapping ethereum core protocol development governance security engineering work and the ethereum core protocol maintenance and upgrades so let's get started okay um so yes the Meep 107 The Maker Improvement proposal it's about the protocol scope bounded mutable alignment artifact so yes we have seen this also in our last uh meeting

um so this is a document that helps the um the rules and guidelines for the maker ecosystem so it it improves it and we have so some important actors such as the um the protocol advisory Council that well it consists his advice reward is related to improving the protocol active uh scope artifacts we also mentioned this last session by the way if you were not and last sessions meeting well we have the recording as well in the link of our notion and so the advisory Council

membership management so if you want to become an advisory council member you need to be approved by the maker governance and of course you must fulfill specific requirements and specific criteria mentioning also that the advisory Council are ecosystem actors and of course they don't need to have any sort of conflict of interest all of this process is managed by the support facilitators okay now let's talk about the projects and funding pretty similar to um last week with less scope advisory Council paid on a project basis and support facilitators have a budget

for advisory consult projects and now also to mention here that the dial took integration which is very similar from last week we also have a separate slide to have or provide some further information into this so in overview this token integration provides a comprehensive view of smart contracts code and other technical items and it's integrating um a development of methods to integrate scope into the Dow toolkit okay now let's talk about the new chain

protocol specification of course new chain it's the current name for the new blockchain that is going to be launched um and here also talks about in this part the maintenance and upgraded um that the protocol facilitators in other um relevant like after ecosystem actors well they are responsible for supporting the new chains early research and development stages um also there is um budget available specifically for the for this project

for the new the new change project and it's managed through a governance pool an executive vote there are two types of budgets the immediate budget and the relative budget their relative budget depends on the income the narration of the maker protocol um and budget details this is the the current amount of dye um and the relative budget has 9 million die unlocks as dye is burned in the smart burn engine so

um in simple terms um the new chain project has already a budget to immediately support and some of the budget it's a you have it available already while the rest depends on certain criteria certain conditions and the protocol facilitators and ecosystem actors are the ones that are um that should support the research and development of of specific models related to the new change for example like um governance and tokenomics okay let's move on to the two stage

Bridge um okay so multi-chain engineering budget this is also controlled by the protocol facilitators and it's going to be used for necessary work for multi-chain engineering budget flexibility so before they launch the new chain the budget can be used for bootstrapping other Technologies and this is the current budget amount per year through our DS best stream and it's expiring in May 2024.

um so there is already a budget allocated for the the development of the two-stage Bridge and other aspects as well of the multi-chain engineering and of course their budget is paid out to those that are involved in the development process and it will eventually be replaced by a permanent budget okay um upcoming developments the protocol facilitators and all Rebellion ecosystem actors must use their resources to support the earliest stages of research and development so this is happen in new

chain in the native governance and neural economics models of new chain the two is this one the two-stage Bridge system developer tools and support new chain holds and restart procedures new chain client or obesity so yes they are the ones both the protocol facilitators and the system actors they're going to use their resources in order to like support the early stages of all this foreign die and by the way you can uh if you have some comment

um you can let it on the chat and our team is gonna reply as fast as they can um or you would like to add something you could also do it we have some proposals of all these um for us it should be added or have some modifications after the presentation of the scope we're gonna mention the proposals that we have but well I am talking you can also add some details comments that you have feedback it's very welcomed so okay um well diet and new stable development the protocols facilitators must oversee

to prevent and development inconsistent with the ATL 4.s permissionlessness and accessibility requirement news so this is of course in um on face one of the end game we have a talk about the end game of Honor first uh meeting you can also watch it because this has been recorded and it's on the link uh of the notion and the new stable launch uh of course it's launched one-on-one unlimited wrapping from die to new stable and this must must be possible recovery system development this vote is

is in progress um facility mechanism for retrieving stock burn dye and new stable okay now let's talk about the scope bootstrapping um there are some modifications like certain articles have been adjusted to overrider Atlas requirements before new new chains launch also new articles have been included to a double progress and there are some concerns relevant that is um essential aspects covered by these articles must be transferred to other parts of the scope artifacts free new

chain launch there are not much details into this so yeah we are kind of like need more information into this this part of the scope okay moving on to the ethereum core protocol development um so before a new change is launched um they need to make sure that the ethereum cord protocol is ready because it's like building a strong Foundation before you can start building something um bigger so um that's why it needs to be prepared

for the new chain launch there are some pretty good features it should be created one-on-one dye to new stable wrapped uh one two 1200 mkr to Nuke of talking Rob a smart board engine for new stable new golf talking pair and subdal which is um proxies the the yes best allocation and forms performance of dial and you got token well here we're talking about the the subdal launch which is on phase two and we have also going to cover in in here um analog stick engine develop ethereum

core Sagittarius log State engine so um to put into some context um the ethereum core Sagittarius locks in ending uh well this is a system and will I mean this system will motivate new golf talking holders to participate in governance so it will accomplish this by locking their new gov tokens and delegating their voting power to uh governance Alliance strategy that is going to be maintained by the ABC so all these things need to be developed and ready before they can move on to the

new chain um it's like making sure everything is in place everything is working well before starting something new okay again we need to mention also here the end game phases so we have launch Phase One features of course new stable New York token a smart board engine saving rate for new stable you go token foreign in detail in our first meeting the lunch phase two which I was mentioning here which involves of course the creation of six course of dial

proxies allocate new golf token through this vest initiate six funds with referral code system also we would like to know more about this about the referral code system if you have further information please write it on the chat or let us know and the launch phase three features that it's a implementation of the ethereum core Sagittarius luxtent engine and the six new of token forms for each sub-dial token okay governance security engineering work um so in order to make sure that

everything runs smoothly and securely in the system um so there are the these people that are called the governance security engineer and of course they have key tasks for example spells development governance security Hanover rules as creation I mean creation of certain specific rules or norms and other related materials that's that stream that are controlled by the protocol engineering facilitators for payout to ecosystem actors and the goal is to um to have a proper functioning of the governance security engineering

this is the the current budget and it's expiring in May 2024. um so for these like in in simple terms in the future they might have about a different budget that lasts longer but um for now they have this budget to make sure that you know everything it's safe and secure in the system and this is the last section which is the ethereum core protocol maintenance and upgrades um so for this of course we have the facilitators who are making sure that

ethereum core protocol it's um working well and keeps running smoothly so these they do the important engineering work um and we have the core engineering code maintenance of 113 maker solidity reports and Associated modules we have some tests like integration updates Keepers infrastructure updates updating to layer 1 and EIP changes gas optimization and opportunities and well for the tooling um they create a special tools that help

with different tasks these tools can automate processes it means that it may like make things easier for developers and help them with um let's say testing and maintenance so that's why Automation and integration tools reusable command line tools developer scripts and maintenance testing and interface modules and we have the external support um seeing sometimes they also work with other people who have like special tools or expertise to help them with their work so

um that's why as needed to meet core unit objectives boundary support so um the goal is to make sure everything in the system works properly it stays up to date and keeps improving you know gets better over time it's like taking care of a big machine to make sure it keeps running uh perfectly okay so now we're gonna mention the proposals so for certain um specifications in this is from 1.1.2 which is the protocol advisory Council project and funding well we also mentioned earlier

so um you can also read it here on the Meep which is in the link is in the notion so if you go to me 107 component 1.1.2.3 it is read The Advisory Council May produce work output that is no directly compatible with the formatting of this scope artifact in this case the protocol facilitators must either transcribe and themselves or hire an ecosystem actor to perform the transcription this role does not require pre-approval by maker governance so we have modified if of course this is

pretty similar to our previous meeting that we have and so we have modified to the following The Advisory console can in some cases produce work output that it's not directly compatible with the formatting of scope artifacts so in this case the protocol facilitators should transcribe them themselves or help the advisory concept choose the most appropriate format for their deliverables again this is um we saw this as well last meeting now we are adding to this to the 1.1.2.3 we're adding the following as

per ATL 2.8.1 The Advisory console is the technical expert in the field in which it is hired to perform a job despite being desired it won't necessarily understand how an atlas format is that's why they can request facilitator support on the format for their work output and also we have added they'll need protocol facilitators assist information output they must disclose it in their advisory constant submission poster Post in making maker form so why we are adding this this modification is in line with the change

we propose in mips the previous that 113 and 106. accessory console is an expert usually technical but may not know how to write a scope and may need support from the facilitator to do so we believe it is important to take care of the treasury of makerdale we do not consider an ecosystem actor should be hired to perform scope transcription so um pretty similar to what we add in last meeting um what we care most about is of the um the protocols I mean makers budget that's why we decided to add this

component and to modify this also we would like to um to hear um and to to read some some feedback about this okay next it's the component 1.1.1.3 that is the protocol facilitators must periodically when it is relevant review The Advisory console applications and if they need fine applications that are suitable bring them to a vote through on mkr governance poll approved advisory council members are added to 10.2.3.1 so this is how it is and we are adding the following

it's 1.1.3.1 so we're adding protocol facilitators have a maximum of one month to communicate a decision about the applications in case of rejection of The Proposal it would be appropriate to communicate it publicly in the Forum with the minimum justification or what it was rejected basically we want um so more details more explanation and if it's publicly it should be better because then everything is transparent okay and now we're gonna change and to add some the out toolkit features that for

us are key points um so um let's start by saying that we had more key points but we summarize it into these four that we have in here and but also we we need some time to delve into and to dive into this that's why we put in here we're working in a modification of Mi 107 confident 1.2 but this is like um what we have so far this is like a brainstorming that we did so um again if you would like to add something please feel free to reach out to us to write it on the chat as well so in the first one we have the smart

contract explored interactive interface for exploring smart contracts within the maker ecosystem providing culture contract details and transaction histories number two security Audits and reports a module displaying audit results for smart contracts including the auditing entity and the Finders um so it's important to check if um each smart contract has been edited properly and they should provide like clear reports on it uh number three monitoring analysis and visualization

tools that allow visualization and understanding of key parameters of the protocol in governance as well as the maker Governor as a maker ecosystem in general um so okay in number three we need tools that make it easy to see and understand relevant information for example like um the main settings and discussions in one in keeping in one place and it would be also helpful to have a way to track the activity of active users also um keep in mind that there are currently several measurement tools available we are currently studying them

and the last one would be executive proposals for Checker a validation tool for executive proposals providing an overview of The Proposal smart contracts fail highlighting potential issues and enhancing transparency and voting confidence so um in here what we are saying is that it would be great to have a tool that can quickly check if the proposal changes are safe and reliable so we're like adding this or or pointing out this because everything would be um so much easier so much faster so this is like the way we want we want to improve it but again

um mentioning that we are still studying this so and to to summarize everything we are working on this we're working on in a modification of the 107 component 102 and we are adding of course all this um before going to our next part please don't forget the following info if you appreciate our work and share our values consider to be coming on a line delegate of sovereign Finance ABC we already have two ads which are mentioned it at the beginning

so we have shout out to Clocky and Polk and there we go if you are a Medicare holder of course please delegate to them um in our next meeting we will discuss about the stability scope we already have a special guest for that as well um and yeah you you need to join us to see who it is and so that will be this part but as I mentioned at the beginning of the meeting um we have a guess so let me check if okay yes

so um I want to stop presenting since before let me give you a little bit of context so one key aspect um that we find important is to discuss the the concept of breaches and security since it's pretty relevant for this scope um and that's why we have uh invited Max uh the the CMOS uh the CMO of connects um to put it some context connects is a leading Bridge platform that is pushing the boundaries of cross chain technology and for us they are at the Forefront of innovation in this area and making

remarkable strides and that's the reason why we are excited to have them here to Enlighten us on the topics of breach so I'm gonna stop sharing these um Christina um wait two minutes please Pat is trying to access to the channel awesome should I I think that people are pretty active so um I tried to read some things in here on the chat but again then I'm gonna continue sharing what the proposals that we have since

especially in the part that we have been most trouble and we would like some feedback so just just a minute oh no this so please we really until last minute we've been trying to to figure out this part and adding some improvements which is the reason why we're here and so while we wait for for Max um please leave some feedback about this what do you think

foreign max if you wanna introduce yourself I was I was just reading your your message my bad but I okay um hello and again we are pretty excited to have you here Max I was just um introducing a little bit of you but if we have you already here uh first of all how are you and if you please could introduce yourself apologies for being late I was just

starting another call uh but yeah pleasure being here my name is Max I work at connect we are an interoperability protocol that I was born in 2017. so we are from a couple of bear markets uh back in the days um we are a protocol that tries to help ethereum to scale by conducting a different scalability solutions that exist today and will exist in the future in the most secure way um super excited to be here I I lead the marketing efforts the connects and take care of most of the activities in the ecosystem side related to growth and Partnerships and yes super happy to be

here with you big fun to make it out thank you thank you again for being here yes as I was mentioning before uh for us I mean we consider that connects itself from innovation in this area and making remarkable strides so um we want to learn from you about bridges and security um do you happen to have a slides for this talk or you would rather me asking you questions I have um fourth life if they can help it's basically I've taken another presentation and I

I try to simplify that for for this chat I guess if it's the point about bridges and how the world will be happy to go through them um so the yeah go ahead please we we are here to learn from you so start please sharing your slides and even if you don't feel like we or there are some other questions I will ask you it's okay that's fantastic um so um the second share my screen all right

um so let me see if this is um so I think you know the premise is what that I want to make is okay what are bridges useful for today how would they be useful tomorrow uh can you can you guys see my screen yeah we can see your screen all perfect so uh Bridges or interoperability interoperability Protocols are you know a tentative for people to connect different ecosystems uh between each other they would otherwise be isolated or semi-isolated but two blockchains I think state for example ethereum and mati and polygon uh uh you

know by you know they're trying to be as secure and as it's decentralized as possible but they are it exists in isolation and so the the issue that people have been wondering since uh the birth of new blockchains have been okay how do I actually connect these two blockchains together um and the same thing happens when you have layer twos or layer of trees have been born on top of existing blockchains right you create these fragmented liquidities fragmented ecosystems uh that are you know secure by themselves but they're hard to connect with each other and so um the first Bridges were born uh with the idea of trying to connect this this type

of um this type of applications um yeah the issue with producing that well that's sorry let me go back to the premise so what Bridges what you can do is basically do a series of activities that are increasing increased increasingly complex and increasingly more powerful as as you did dive into what a bridge actually is so it Bridges a way to move data between these different ecosystems and the different chains which are in a simple form allows you to say okay hey I want to move some tokens from one chain to another one right so this is the case of every type of project that since during the time allows the user to tokens but you can also uh use them to actually move other type of data like if you want

to move a boat if you want to send a vote from one chain to another one uh you can actually use an interoperability protocol uh if you want to change a parameter on a smart contract on another chain you can do it with a internal interoperability protocol so you can use you can basically send instructions on the different chains from from one one single chain or you can use a um you can use an interpreter Bluetooth portable ultimately to create applications that can interact and live on multiple chains uh basically unifying uh all the liquidity all the data all the users exist on the on the on the different ecosystems and that's the ultimate objective of bridges or

interoperability protocols is to really um provide an experience for users where they don't have to think about what change they're on but really being able to interact with any dap on any chain using any token whatever they hold funds so this is the um the ultimate objective Bridges so how do Bridges work um the idea with Bridges so I need to change lives because I realize these are to summarize and I got better ones edema Bridges is that you always have to you know to ask whenever you look at the bridges how do I how do I uh create that basically how

how do I make a if I look at a bridge how do I make how do I how can afford basically how can I extract it how can I manipulate okay and this is not extremely a trivia issue because the basic type of bridge is what we call an externally better cover bridge it's been the one that has provided the easiest solution uh since blockchains were born which is basically I create a third party right the monitors what happens on one chain and say okay uh something can happen on the other chip so the third party is in the in the simplest form a a centralized exchange for example in entity one entity a database they say okay I'm

looking off chain at some data on chain a and I can say hey uh some tokens can be locked on chain a so I can mean some other tokens on chain B okay this is the the simplest form of a bridge it's a third party and so people start to say okay but it's a centralized exchange is very centralized right one entity one one server is very centralized let me try to decentralize that a little bit so they created a multisig okay um but motc of course they they have other issues because right you are still relying on a limited number of people these people can be in fact these people can be bribed right you're simply yeah moving the the bar in just a little bit further and so

people said okay I can then create a validator set for example oh I can use another for example so the issue with with these Solutions is that you're still relying on one trusted party um to actually uh validate the transactions between that are happening across ships in the case of a bad little set you're basically creating instead of having a mood to seek of two people all of a sudden you have a motorcycle 20 people uh that is coordinating by by a token for example so you're saying hey um this this is something this this validator set is monitoring one chain uh coming to an agreement and say hey uh something had happened on the other

chain but this set of alligators is again a something that is relatively easy to corrupt right manipulate in comparison to the security that a big blockchain can can provide right so if I have a micro blockchain that is controlling this 20 20 validators my macro blockchain is uh is controlled by its governed by a token um and all I need to do in order to manipulate this bridge is by 10 million of these tokens uh then it just becomes an economic problem right and if you think about it in the moment that you know as a project you want to be resilient to any type of attack

and all you have to do to manipulate uh the tokens or the data that are being moved across the different chains is actually to buy this this token or a macro cap of a micro blockchain then a big that becomes the the riskest part of uh the whole College so externally verified Bridges uh uh the systems that basically rely on the third party and the third party becomes the critical the critical element to to hack or manipulate where all the attacks will be focused on so it's important like to re to reduce the the Reliance of this type of bridges because they are not as trust minimized as the

chains that they're trying to connect and so you're making you know they're reducing the trust assumptions also we are increasing the trans assumptions they're increasing the risk by using exteriorated straight into uh the explanations if I'm rushing too much because you can stop me please ask many questions um I will just now go through all the type of bridges and so we can now then look at what what's the idea solution or what we believe uh solution as I said this this has come from a years of research that connects has done um if you should feel free to look at our blog and our interoperability

trailer blog posts um it's been useful research since a couple of years um on to highlight all different type of bridges so we looked at the first one externally verified Bridges uh the third party verified transactions is not trust minimized because they are creating a a new entity it basically provides the uh verification to connect these different genes um the the most secure type of bridge today is today we call them native Bridges and it's basically when uh all the validators or one chains are actually verifying the transactions that happen on other chains

um in in a complete form this is the case for example of IBC on Cosmos where the validators are all checking the transactions on the other chains or as a specific case on the Roll-Ups roll-up ranges where the validators of the layer one ethereum are able to uh verify the transactions or verify manage the smart contract that controls the uh the security of the layer 2 Bridge so in the case of the Leo 2 Bridge all the security is hold his head on ethereum itself on the smartphone on

ethereum and that's how and that's how they can maintain the uh the trans minimization values so this this type of bridge is actually the most secure what what are the issues with those is that they are effective only for a specific path only for a specific ecosystem IBC for example is extremely trust minimized but it only works within the cosmos ecosystem right it doesn't work outside of the cosmological system because it was designed to be part only of the cosmos ecosystem the arbitrum ethereum connection is super extremely trust minimized trustless but it only works between arbitrary and the hero right the same Bridge cannot work for any other of

the layout tools so it's specifically designed for for one pass and therefore it's just minimized but it's not generalizable we mix it um it doesn't make it the the ideal case for foreign Bridge um and as you can see it's starting to you know build up the pieces you can notice that every type of bridge has its own trade-off meaning that it has some strength ideally the trans minimization should be the ideal strength but also some weaknesses and in this case the requests that native bridges are only effective are only working for specific uh specific native path

so as I said this is a typical example for Roll-Ups and as the IVC and all the native Bridges between the layer tools and layer ones whether they're optimistic whether they are ZK Bridges and so forth in some case um local very locally verified these are almost not used anymore connects with an old Adoration of this uh these are the case for example of uh Atomic Atomic locks crossgen Atomic locks uh were two parties uh the two parties that want to interact with each other onto different chains they verify each other they verify each other and say hey um uh

I'm I'm both we're they're both locking the tokens on two different chains at that point they check and sign a message they see the tokens locked on the other chains so I'm locking the chain on the tokens on chain a the other party loves their tokens on JB we we signage the transaction that we both see the other tokens locked and only that moment the tokens are unlocked on the other chains so we both basically at counterparties verify each other uh and therefore we keep the system trustless the issue with the system is that it's not extensible meaning that the the type of actions that I can do is basically just this kind of locking in and unlocking tokens uh while we uh as

protocols we need to have more generalized type of um instructions being able to to be passed across the different chains for example with this system I cannot Mint new tokens on the destination chain uh I cannot pass a vote because the other party needs to be able to right the other part is only able to unlock this type of the tokens that they previously locked and so this is the limited this is the transfer system but it's also a limitation of um sorry it's only it's also limited by the type of activities that can be done with this type of bridge AKA I cannot move actually move tokens I can only lock the ones that are already

existing on the other on the on the on the destination change this is something happen here let me see oh um third Bridge third type of bridge uh almost the last one uh so it's four it's four or five in total uh I'll get i'll get into that um optimistic Bridges optimistic Bridges uh in extremely secure way to communicate between two different chains so the way that works is basically um if I I send the transaction from chain a to chain B but before they are this transaction is is considered valid

it's quarantined for a certain amount of time let's say 30 minutes during the 30 minutes any Watcher so anybody that is watching and monitoring the chain can demonstrate cryptographically that the transaction that has been sent is now valid okay so I cannot by definition I cannot demonstrate that something that happened on chain a I cannot demonstrate from chain B there's something that something actually happened on chain a but I can demonstrate from chain B that something didn't happen on chain a optimistic Bridges and then Roll-Ups are of course an application of this Source

I can demonstrate cryptographically that something didn't happen ja and I can prove and I can prove it and therefore I can prevent the transaction that has been quarantined for 30 minutes to be considered valid and so if any Watcher demonstrated the transaction is nobody the transaction is slashed and uh you know the communication in there we can prevent fraud and so all a all an optimistic everything as an optimistic Bridge needs is at least one good actor that is monitoring this the chains this monitor in the space and can demonstrate I can I can you know demonstrate that is that there has been fraud On the Origin chain so prevent the

fruit to be being spread disks uh so this is a very security mechanism because you only need one good actor that's why optimistic Bridges have been uh successful so optimistic Roll-Ups have been so successful because they rely or they're training to rely on the same mechanism but the issue of course is that they're not instant so an optimistic bridge between uh chains to the uh takes you know between 30 minutes and one hour um the optimistic bridge is optimistic Road labs they take seven days if you want to go out so that's of course the biggest limitation right they're not instant they provide a television experience for users that instead need uh you know immediate settlement

to go to get out of a specific ecosystem so these were a very high level overview of the four type of bridges that exist today um how do we solve it right how do we get on um and the idea is to start creating a modular system and this is how this is what connects does for example this is what other bridges are doing um with the idea is that okay I can I can have a different layers in my bridge with the underlying layer being an optimistic system when I say hey I only need one Watcher to keep my system

secure right one one entity that is watching the um is watching all the transactions and if I have many much better right I can be more sure that at least one of them will be honest um there was much in transactions but uh but then I have the latency so how do I solve that I basically have a liquidity Network so a series of liquidity providers on the various chains that Monterey transaction C transactions are incoming and coming towards a specific decision chain and they said the user hey you should be waiting for 30 minutes yeah the transaction is coming from Chennai to GMB you should be waiting for 30 minutes or more in order to receive

your cash I will give you immediately buying and we'll give you immediately the funds that you need in exchange for a macro ship and then I will wait for the slow refund coming from the optimistic Bridge Okay so I uh as a repeatable provider I give the cashmere with the user they can go and do what they want and then I will wait for uh for the message to come by the optimistic mechanism it takes 30 minutes one hour whatever it takes and I will get a slow refund because I give I can demonstrate I can prove that I've given the cash to the user before and so I will get I will get the refund of his original funds coming from the optimistic Bridge doesn't make sense

yes oh yeah yes I was talking with a mic off oh that's it so this this is the very high level overview of bridges okay um the the General concept is how can I create a system right a third part A system that needs to connect the two blockchains that are by definition isolated in the most secure way possible if possible I should use the native Bridges the native bridges are the most secure ones but you know we have they have trade-offs right they're specific for One path they're specific for um

um or they might take some time to to allow you to get out of the ecosystem as an optimistic role I don't want to rely on external third party because uh they're basically they basically become the critical element in the whole chain in the whole connection they can be uh they can be hacked they can be bribed they can be you know if if a third party comes so if a regulator comes and this the bridge is controlled by one specific entity an offline entity for example with a normal call the regulator is actually able to it could could actually be able to tell this this Oracle this third party hey stop operating or you know I want you to manipulate the data right if there's if

if the transaction the flow transaction is in control of one party only that's the higher risk that you can take uh and so you want to create a system that is less reliant on um the or centralized particles and so one of the solutions that exists today is rely on optimistic Bridges and apply a modular model architecture on top of it so that you can fast liquidity to compensate the trade-off of latency the optimistic which you said um is there any questions that you or any other topics that you wanted me to cover

yes Yes actually first of all thank you for all your knowledge for sharing with us and and yes we we have a couple of questions in in here so I'm gonna read them all um also hold on in the chat um yes paper Imperial wrote about and put the link of an article that we were just reading yesterday and yes this is pretty relevant Foundation publishing their assessment of six Bridge of course this is yes in the context of unisa governance but still if you are starting with Bridges this is a good reading so thank you for

sharing and when it comes to the questions yes you share some um I mean your insights on the essential skills needed for uh for an advisory Council when it comes to coding like we need to know more about the the profile so if you could share with us kind of like those skills what would it be or would you consider the most um suitable for them so can you rephrase that I didn't I didn't catch the question yes when it comes to the uh the the

skills required for um modifiable like advisory in conceal like the advice frequency that wants to have more information about this is there any skills for example what do you consider for you that are necessary skills to have [Music] looking at the skills that are necessary to better understand the world of bridges so that you can advise other entities yes yes because we're looking for uh I mean we have this role for the advisory

Council and since when they need to to be like it's precise in certain topics so um how could it start with this Okay so um I mean the good thing is that so of course like when we talk about bridges there are two type of risks mostly uh one is a you know implementation risk which is the typical smart contract risk right so anyway which is common around the whole of Devi or D5 so if we are if you want to look at that type of risk of course you need to be a coder right there's no going around we're looking at like looking at bugs into smart contracts and so it's

it's a whole topic on its own for the bridges in general one thing that matters a lot is the fast minimization of the architecture and so and that I think what I like about that is that it's a pretty logical um uh logical aspect right you don't need to get colder I'm not a colder myself uh but real life if it's uh it makes sense when you look at a different uh solutions that exist out there to understand where the uh where the risks are or the risks are for these different or Solutions so I would say like the best way to approach this is having a

look at all the research that has been produced in the last three four years in particular um and then start really logically analyzing all the different solutions that are out there with the with the general question of how would I be able to screw this system if I wanted to right like if you think about it like a an oracle makes sense intuitively to to to bridge between two systems right I just created third party and then it will monitor what happens on one chain unless something happen on the other chain but then if you start asking okay how can I manipulate this all color for example I could go and uh and uh I don't know and

cut it off right and cut this electricity and then all of a sudden this this this centralized party is not able to provide the information that was needed uh I could go and uh what what if I had a a a a a bridge controlled by multiple uh validators that are controlled by a token well I could buy 100 million uh worth of dollars for this token because that's how much I need to control 50 of the supply and what's 400 million if I am a small government if I have a if I'm a big a big Corporation right once you start thinking about logically what would be the easiest way to order the on some possible ways to

ask that to screw up these systems you you start to understand what was that what how does the the scenario looks like for the different solutions um so I don't I don't think it necessarily requires a technical knowledge it's more about understanding how the system works beyond all the marketing hype because all of the bridges today claim to be trustless and all of all of them right have uh you know the reality is very different if you go into under the surface awesome the fact that 500 percent you know you have all this

knowledge um there are so more questions uh can you please tell us a little bit more about connects because there are some people that oh wait hold on I did this specific question I don't know if you can see it how does connect but I don't yeah there's I don't know why you can read the whole thing yeah yeah how does Connects handle situations where there might be a discrepancy or dispute between a user and a router good question um so

um what basically happens is that the user is expecting uh I don't know 100 100 euros on the on polygon because it sent one on optimism and the writer for whatever reason sends him 50 50 euros on uh on polygon on the receiving chains okay so the user is like okay I didn't receive my tokens so what happens is that there's low refund that is coming by the optimistic Bridges by the optimistic system is going to and end up in the hands of the of the users unless the router is able to prove like uh on chain that he already sent 100 to 100 euros to the user's own chain right

if it doesn't do that he loses he he basically the the draw path will deliver the 100 euros to the user um and which will end up with 150 Euros at the end so the writer will have lost his uh his actual his actual tokens um if he is able to prove that he made the 100 euros transfer to the user then he goes to the optimistic system and said hey I already sent him the token here's the proof I am entitled to get a refund and so he will receive the actual two days so the the the the router cannot manipulate the system because it needs to provide a non-train received um to the to the optimistic system in

order to get his refund if he wants to make a difference if he wants to send a different amount of money to the user and there's no economic incentive for that because you will end up losing that as they cannot provide a full receipt to the optimistic system a few documents I'm trying to simplify the cross for the sake of time and for the sake of like Simplicity but uh we're publishing now a few articles on how connects Works under the hood uh and so it's very interesting to see how you know these guys have been I really don't want to take credit for this because I

joined connects a couple of years ago but these guys have been thinking about it for five years you know through all the bear markets and they really really care about security and Trust minimization so you can see how you know they really thought about it across the different layers of connects or how it exists and how they're trying to prevent all the all the limitations of the systems with with other layers that goes underneath that are kind of the fallback of the system so it's uh it's very fascinating and I'm happy to send you more information afterwards perfect yes because there is there is drawings resolved by Oracle governance instead of on-chain in

optimistic bridge I mean it's asking if this is correct um and then native to Native swap versus wrapping again if I understand correctly yeah conflict system definitely so probably yeah you guys should reach out to each other but at this I don't know if you want to add something Max um foreign transaction they stop

true transactions right so they are they are the opposite instead of saying yes this can be done this this is correct they can only say no this is not correct uh but they have the latency the latency period and so the liquidity layer on top makes this trade-off of the latency by giving the cashmere to the user and having somebody else taking the uh the longer time for for the system to be for the transactions to be approved us thank you so much much for joining us in US it has been like a lot of new information probably or technical information but the fact that you

mentioned that you don't need to be uh there per se to kind of have all this information it's I don't know it's like really wonderful for us to know I don't think that everyone is here is a Dev so that is awesome um and I don't know if you want to add something else before we wrapped out uh the session thank you guys um I mean pleasure being here you know huge fan of Homemaker that was doing the way they operated they are as we are transitioning also into a Dao we are looking at it into a processes so it was yeah it's very nice to be to be here and see how things work on the other side thank you Max thank you

thank you again everyone thank you Max and that will be all for for today's submittee call and again uh we appreciate your time for being here and we'll see uh next week we're gonna talk about stability scope we're also gonna bring awesome guests as today with Max thank you so much bye bye foreign