36° AVC Subcommittee Meeting | Accessibility Scope Bounded Mutable Alignment Artifact | Maker

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w [Music] hello hello welcome hi everyone thank you for joining us please let me know if you can hear me well good to see everyone here I'm going to first of like to say hi to the ones that are saying by uh Jack blue PB Pipkin

Marian ta true name thank you for confirming Mariana P pero okay thank you I'm just making sure you know what happens sometimes with this course weird uh I would like to start by saying that this is our last call of this quarter so yes we finished uh all our meetings this is uh accessibility scope and it's our 36 ABC comedy meeting and as you can see we have special guests for today um I'm going to start first by in introducing a little bit this scope so the accessibility scope is one of

the let's say the the tricky ones but because of the lack of information right if we focus on this scope what topics we can find on on the uh the M 108 well uh about the EGF about the E governance Fant about the lunch project about um even they mention Bri uh the brand guidelines right uh but most of it most of the topic is regarding the rebranding of maker that's why this is going to be the main topic for today and that's why we have a special guests for this we are joined by Mariano and toal from growth

that I'm going to introduce just in a while um but yes as I was mentioning this is a tricky topic since there is no much details and information on certain topics um now let me point out that we believe if that this information like the one that I mentioned before should be like accessible and uh right public However unfortunately it's consider of course it's it's it's confidential and we do understand um so just to have that in mind uh the reason that the topics and the questions that we're going to be discussing here are basically on the

rebranding uh and so if and please feel free to ask and actually I encourage everyone to discuss to share your insights your questions into this um so yeah I think right now it's the right moment so uh first I'm going to I would like uh Marian how are you can you please introduce yourself for everyone Hi everyone thank you for the invite my name is Mariano and I'm here working and make since 20 I 18 already it's a lot of time uh sorry for my voice I don't feeling quite well right now uh but yeah happy to to be

part of this meeting thank you thank you for being here Mariano and we have toall as well actually this is not the first time we have toball we previously had toble as a guest back in September last year we we were discussing as well the rebranding so we recommend everyone to take a look to our to the recording of this meeting we're going to share also the link um how are you tabal hey how's it going can you hear me yes all good oh nice I'm doing great yes thank you very much for inviting me again I think we can start thank you

guys for being here again um so rebranding and we're again we're going to focus on the Rebrand Mission what can you tell us what has been happening in this uh a couple of months since we last have you well the yeah it's been having a lot of different things H one disclaimer that we should be doing is that H most of the things are confidential we I believe you will understand that we cannot share much information so any specific question that you might have probably we won't be able to answer it but we can talk about the concepts and what are the the

thoughts that we have uh when we start working on this webrand yes we we do understand uh so please tell us what what's your your thought um how how are you feeling with this rebranding maybe you can tell us like the most difficult things or yes the concepts that probably it's going it's changing completely probably the way you are working yeah yeah ER there has been a lot of er work on on this rbrand because it had to match what the end game uh is saying right uh one of the probably most

difficult things H in terms of branding and marketing in defi space is how you create a welcoming brand right and this is something that uh we we have been seeing a lot in the space for example as we like to call the hon thing right the hon thing it's something that we we don't think I mean we don't know if that's the truth right if that's the direction of the GFI ecosystem should take if we want to have massive adoption right probably that hean thing is too

cryptic for the outsider and all the things that uh that comes with that term right all the terms the never going to make it the cron is the wag me the whatever you know what I'm talking about right whatever thing that makes crypto cryptic that's a mouthful um we believe that instead of opening the doors for new people is actually closing doors for new people because if you take the time to talk with people that is not in crypto and you ask them hey how do you feel about

the people that is actually in crypto how are you look at them what do you what do you perceive right and we've been doing this type of research since a long time and and we come to the conclusion that it's pretty difficult for the outsider to start getting into communities to start getting into applications to start getting into protocols mostly due to the language barrier and the term barrier right again this Hon or how a protocol talks about governance right MP 150 B plus Square I don't know there's a bunch of things

that we find out are actual blockers right and one thing that we've been seeing that web two does it really well is they communicate plain and simple right you don't have you don't need to put a lot of cognitive work into play to know what an bank is doing or how is it right but when it comes to protocol it's pretty difficult because at the end of the day it's as I always say right it's with with crypto you are mixing two of the biggest fear that the that a person has is the fear of money and the fear of

Technology right so and if on top of that we had like weird terms difficult things and we explain with you know our own words for the things that can be explained in a different manner that also that only lead us to have less and less people in the ecosystem so those are the pillars on which we work on the Rebrand we want to be welcoming we want to be ah a product not only a protocol and

that's really really important right we believe that all this year maker was one of the OG protocols right I mean well look at me saying OT crypto thing right was one of the very first protocols in the industry that brought defi ER to the ecosystem and now we want to bring products because with products we will have M do right but we have to rework everything from the visuals from the words from the ux I mean there's a lot of things that we have to

change to start uh proving thesis right that we have to make it simple I agree yes I mean if we talk about how difficult has been for everyone to um learn about the ecosystem probably we have different answers but I think we can all agree that it's not as easy as it looks like and it takes uh I don't know I wouldn't say weeks I would say even I wouldn't say even months I would say years and that's why I think a

lot of people that are involved into maker I mean that's they've been here for a while now so yes I mean we're gonna I'm going to ask more questions about what you've said Mariano but I have a uh there is a question in the chat now clar is asking if there is a specific date for the rebranding and if you can share the information and no dat and also it's important to know that when you launch a brand in terms of marketing and also how to try to get to get the most you know the the highest possible

impact out of it you don't want to pre-announce that you are launching a brand on a specific date ahead of the lunch right you want to have this effect of surprising people and uh this hype and also yes uh in order to get this kind of impact that will also take us to the kpis and also the marketing metrics that we want to reach based on this surprising effect we are not going to pre-announce what's the launch of the brand ahead of the launch

I believe that's part of the reasoning behind launching a brand probably there will be some updates on the Forum in case uh elements of the brand uh have to be accepted by maker governance and when that happens you will have and some sense of okay the brand it's going to be launched soon but in terms of a specific dates or specific timelines uh that's not something that we are going to disclose ahead of the specific lunch or at least that's the current reasoning behind that uh behind behind Ling launching a brand uh I don't

know if well maker governance can change that in the future because everything in maker can change according to what governance specifies but the current idea is that if you want to get most the highest possible impact anything else that you would like to add Mariana about this oh as the B was saying also there's a lot of different moving parts that are involved in this lunch is not only marketing and growth and the actual Rebrand but it's also so how the whole

Dow behaves according to the end game right so we are working towards a different H milestones for the for the land that we still need to to work and with other teams right uh so yeah no not not that not dat yet not that yet uh Marian is asking for the rebranding are you working in coordination with the teams that are working on the ux such as the easy governance front end or is it totally independent project no it's a totally

independent project and we have been working with a a team that we we brought inside the Dow with toal it's a triple A team it's actually top top top of the line stop not they work with Google Facebook with meta I mean with pretty much top of the industry and and it's it's really amazing what they have it so yeah actually really really excited but it's a completely different team

I've seen that you've been kind of like recruiting people also for involving all of this big big project so can you tell us about this process about how does it it's been like the the the process of recruiting for this specific um part of rebranding uh big protocol like maker yeah with the with to we been first doing some scouting on the different teams agencies designers like there's a there's actually a pretty interesting world when it comes to the designers

World designers Community to have like a a lot of different things right I mean people that are really good to do one kind of thing uh but it's like really awful doing another type of thing right and you need to find this right balance and having like the skills having also the the background and experience with big projects right but also having H this understanding of crypto right that was one of the main

challenges that we have with with toal but luckily we come across three agencies that they worked in the past with some crypto projects and we did a kind a a proposal competition between two of them right ER and it was really good because just when you look when just looking at their proposals you see that they are playing in another leag right they were putting the extra mind on the proposals in like in all terms right in the in the things

that they prepared to show you that they are capable of doing this work on the communication side of things also it's really really important this is one of the great surprises that we have with toal is finding people that actually meet deadlines right and one of the crazy thing is that hey we will start this project on this day and we will end this project on this day and that thing actually happens like all the schedules are me that was amazing H but also that really shows

the the Professional Standards that these people have so I was amazed and it was like a amazing to work with that so we can say that top people are behind the rebranding I mean not only the ones that we know but also the ones that you have um Rec recruit right yeah yeah absolutely absolutely um and also one of the cool things is that they I mean they already had some crypto experience but now since they have been working with us they are like finding a new world in which they can a lot of things can be done in terms of ux and

design right and marketing so they also kind of were crypto I'm supp that's the way that's the way to get more involved into this ecosystem well done there are a lot of questions in the chat so I'm going to read them this is from Jack uh they're asking what can we expect the name the new name to be simple and not requiring crypto knowledge to understand seeing that's have you've been approaching it were you were you talking more about messaging and marketing I answer that yes based on what marianao said every part of of the

new brand is meant to be low cognitive and be really straightforward with the value proposition we want to deliver to the current and new users uh so that we can get closer to this massive adoption that we are looking for with the new maker so yes uh including the name which is one of the most relevant parts of a new brand and Beyond the name there are probably thousands of other elements uh we want them to

be together in a simple low cognitive uh structor so that we can deliver the highest impact possible and also so adding to that and this is probably the most important thing right it's that a aand or or even a new name right doesn't tell you anything or doesn't impact you until it creates its own story right so that's why also we need you to stick with the rebranding St with maker after the Rebrand to start

seeing where we are heading to right and you will start to understand what is this story of the new brand what is what we want to create here right that is how you at the end of the day you will get like the whole thing right probably I mean when you see a new Rand it's not only for America right pretty much for every product that we can talk about you going say oh yeah well I like this I don't like that H nothing just spectacular right but that happens because it doesn't have the substance

because substance come with time once you start to understand that there is a relationship between messaging between product between benefits you will start to get the whole thing right and this is is the the thing that will happen here you will first see a name you will see visuals and then you will see messaging then you will see product then you will see Community right and that is when the rebranding start to have its effect right it's more like a movie effect instead of a photo effect so

so we can start like guessing what's going to be like the new the new names for new gol and new stable having it in mind that it has to be of course align with what uh maker is going to be now right more more accessible more more simple thank you for your answers um next question it's comp ask can you quantify the rebranding progress in a percentage like 80% done one that's a good one that's a good nice try nice try uh I would prefer to not give you a sense of progress uh given

the this nature of surprising effect and and yes it's because we have a mandate with makeer and we want to make sure that our metrics kpis and our results are going to be met by our team and we really treat the information about the brand very carefully and with a very confidential uh with very confidential rules that we have to to follow so that we can get the most out of it but make sure that we are going to

deliver something really cool it will be more fun for you guys than for us and also I think a thing that I like that it's it's different to be H it's it's different what do you mean different from the things that you usually see in def5 yeah okay I think you're talking about gamification no what no it's most mostly related to the

visuals I mean when you what you expect out of a financial or technology product well this is different okay okay thank you uh can you please tell us about can you give us more details on the kpis that you mentioned uh we're yes kpi oriented uh the most most important single kpi is related to the die Supply as it's always been um and from that single kpi you

have a breakdown of other kpis by air so that we will make sure to meet kis related to user acquisition volume value do uh all these standard elements that describe the success of a financial product Beyond being only crypto like if you think of these crypto related API such as total value log volume and that kind of stuff they are like a crypto version of the same kpis that we uh that other Financial centralized products use such as assets on their management asset under

custody active users and so on uh we will be measuring that and and in order to achieve that we will have to deliver this brand with this new structure and we believe in the vision of this 108% degree 100% degree turn into before and uh something that will reach new users and current ones I think that the purpose of this is

like as getting really hype and I think you're really having that resulted because yes the the more you we want to know even more now so I sent questions previously like beforehand and you um you tell me that it was okay to ask this specific questions that now I am going to ask so the first one it was just give second going to read um okay so since the introduction of the edsr in August last year there was a notable

search in Supply growth picking at $5.4 billion dollar however this growth has since plateaued and slightly declined currently standing at just under five billion given this eighth month trend of fall in Supply what initiatives are being pursued to exp that present in additional Market get is there any action that governance can take to address this issue that's a a very cool question but I believe it's mostly related to the forces of the market right for I mean if you take a look into what is the actual revenue of maker Dow it

grew a lot right it grew a lot even if you compare that also to other protocols but also again there's Market forces involved in this that usually to to take with some patients right a couple of I would say months ago not long too not too long ago maker was being described as this WRA usdc thing right but once the bus mark starts to hit we know that usually then at back loans are the primary source of Revenue

and the primary source of die creation for the produ but that is because usually new people into the crypto space doesn't really understand how Maker Works right as I like to to to say maker is like a living thing that really behaves that really behaves how the the market proposes right let's say for example if the market it's on a be Market there's no much things to do with your stable coins probably you are not you are not wanting to leverage right you probably just want

a safe type of investment and that is how you can use USC to get die and get some out of the DSR that's one thing but things can be really different if ethereum start reaping H in the price side of things people wants to start leveraging their at stock and the easiest and cheapest way to do it at scale is with maker that right so that's that's the thing you have to take into considerations not only the total D Supply but also you have to take into

consideration the market is behaving how the the the revenue is also behaving for for the protocol and and how is like that thing integrated into the the whole structure right because or maker do having the revenue out of the ethereum loans is one of the best thing right uh so yeah probably from a governance perspective I don't know what can be done like right now to start growing the dice Supply I believe it's a the dce

supply finds like its natural circula Supply according to the total size of the market right H and also you have to take into consideration other players right like for example this new thing ethena I believe that again the stable coin the stable coin Market it's a pretty Dynamic one in which you have new players like every year and every time that you have a new player like the total hierarchy of stable coins except for tether and at

some point for USC gets mixed right gets like reordered H and since maker has this living thing Behavior sometimes tends to have a lot of Supply sometimes tends to have less Supply but and this is one of the coolest thing I believe it always makes money and it's pretty pretty resilient right so yeah I I I have a a view that maker needs to adapt to changes instead of having like a a streamly huge circulating Supply number of

that this is also like this mindset already this Insight that you just mentioned about that uh maker needs to adapt more it's also regarding this uh like the oldtime high that just happened and what is your like what do you believe how maker behaves with the latest oldtime P when you have ramping prices people wants to leverage ethereum and the best way to actually do that at scale is with makeer d because you you can go to a or whatever lending protocol except spark because spark being connected to maker owns the liquidity

right if you go to any lending protocol and you want to to leverage your ethereum you are C by the total amount of stable coins that are deposit in the protocol right and as long and as soon you are depleting the protocol out of those stable coins you are start getting higher interest rates right on your low and that things that really doesn't happen on maker right you can if you have I don't know1 billion dollar in ethereum you can deposit that and have let's call it quote unquote fixed rate until a new governance vote came in h and for for the ecosystem that is a

that is a pretty cool thing you know it's not like a or compound or whatever those type of Protocols are because with maker you have cheap liquidity and scale so that is the like one of the the roots of this H Market behavior that maker as a prot has I believe is really really cool thank you now the next question it's uh Alo regarding a little bit about the context that that we've seen in the market and

so uh and also regarding the uh layer twos so despite the significant growth of TBL and particles in rollups maker still lacks a presence in L2 so can you tell us your insights of why this is happening why is this the case and if we can like anticipate any any developments um by this year or next year yeah this is this is more like a product related thing rather than our area of expertise I believe but

um based on also what Marian said maker is the Top Choice product to to leverage for e or estate e or high liquid volatile AET whatever at scale and the reason why people value that is that is because these people that are the targeted user for maker they have really big BS they want to deploy assets at scale and this these people value mainly two things the fact that they can have predictability at

scale and not and by at scale I'm talking about hundreds of millions of dollars for example if you go to maker dot blog analytica atcom you will see you can see how much liquidity is in the maker BS and you can see that top maker for example is something like 300 million deposited in state F or something like that if you go to spark it's the same so they are very few people with big bags and these people beyond the parability on the rates they value security the most secure place to deploy

such liquidity is ethereum there's nothing else that's more secure than ethereum right now and the difference in security between layer 2 and ethereum is still uh very far maker has uh developed a lot of research towards figuring out what's the best way to deploy the main product of maker in l2s without compromising the level of security that it has right now uh there was were some progress made in maker warhole for example uh later it was Ren named to

makeer teleport and yes I believe that's the primary fact I would have to consider when asking why isn't maker in L2 uh the end game plan outlines a way to deploy an Al if I'm not wrong uh based on the primary I would say out of ethereum structure that we can we as maker or maker can uh put in place which is the maker chain

thing and uh once that fin is deployed I believe that will be much easier for maker to understand what's the best path to deploy L2 uh but yes that's I'm just probably giving you more information to ask more questions but I just want to tou based on the rational and also on the elements that we have to take into consideration when asking why is a Mak L2 it's not as easy as let's deploy in an L2 and that's it and let's get more uh I would say low income or see yeah lwi income users for

example let me yeah let me let me add something to that panel maker has this philosophy that need to pretty much build everything right and breaches as you may know is one of the weakest point in the whole ecosystem related to hacks right and the idea as F was saying we we hav plan the teleport but then the end game came in and there were another things to work on right but in the future we will have uh something similar to the

teleport in which we can bring that to other l2s but again again we don't have a date for that but we believe that will come like really soon after the the relou of the of the whole thing thank you guys I I just want to give some context for everyone uh so p means in Spanish uh friend good Contex yeah sorry sorry we are the panas mar going say she tell each other

P good okay now now the last question it's regarding ABCs so what's your your Insight how can as uh as ABCs get like support or uh have anything in order to help the rebranding maybe if it's some feedback or Insight remember that there are also um you know not only ABCs but community members users that you like us to to know what what's your intake on ABC's roles uh I'd like to see ABCs as the next generation of political

parties and uh so I might have a bias you know take on how should ABCs behave towards the Rand because they may be probably ABCs that are against the theand for example or end game and they might be ones that are uh supporting that kind of thing end game and Rand so but in terms of an ABC from a more General perspective uh like considering that probably one important result or goal for an ABC might be getting more members and more

governance participant uh participants with the with an Aline Vision I believe it's doing um targeted and easy to comprehend Communications and this is also again align with what we discussed at the beginning and align with what's the vision of the new brand it's really hard to get if it's really hard to get into crypto and then below crypto it's really hard to get into D5 I would say that getting into governance is way way be way more hard and uh if you consider that a good

probably progress that the ABCs can make in the governance realm would be uh probably lowering the barrier of participation for new comerce and making it more effective to making the decisions that they make more effective towards the aligned Vision that we want the out to have in terms of the randing if I might give you a biased take it would be supporting the the vision of the brand and uh this vision of lowering the cognitive barrier and

also reaching to new users in a way that we can deliver to them an easy to understand message call to actions and ways to be involved um so and also not only reasons to be involved but also reasons to make their votes count to make their votes be effective and to see the results of why I am doing governance um I believe that there is the most important opportunity of improvement and in terms of the new

brand will let support it thank you tobal and I was missing a question so thank you so much pip Pipkin from bringing it up again it it it's what happens if the new brand plan it's unveiled and governance doesn't like it would that break the timeline to launch or will there be a choice in either one will be ready to go I think you toal men mentioned that it's it all depends also what governance ISS so what's your take on this question I'm not really sure what's the Direction governance going to take in this case but I can give you my perception perception of what would be a

good path to follow it is probably something similar to what we do right now with the parameter changes where an specified designed ecosystem actor has uh control over what are what the parameters are what the new parameters should be for maker and based on that control then we have an ecosystem facilitator or ecosystem team which approves the changes and then they go directly to Executive vote So based on that logic I would say it would be probably smart to have the same logic for the uh team in charge of the new brand

to have this kind of control over the release of the new brand meaning like the logos the names and that kind of stuff and present that to governance as a you know as something more related to The Vision that we want to pursue and I can start with without revealing the actual brand you know and then once it passes the executive vote well we are ready to release it to the public So based on that if the brand is not approved might make governance through that

process uh I'm not sure what's going to happen probably we have to work on another one or probably the the plan should be uh reframed or I don't know but the fact is that end end game has been approved by governance already and Below end game we have the brand project and what's the direction that we want to pursue and all that so I'm not the governance expert here in M I know some simple basic things and I would love to to know what the government facilitators take in this uh basically based on what has been

approved already and based on what's still yet to be approved but my understanding is that that would be that the first case that I presented you is going to to be something really similar to what's going happen oh this is the perfect moment to to mention it so it it's good now that uh governance facilitators can also know your concerns and uh what you would like to be more specific into this these topics so that's that's good I see another question on following up question on that and the fact is that the budget and also the

project scope is defined by the end game which has been already approve so uh I can't say much like anything beyond that like er it's all about what's has been approved and how end game is developing right now based on the plan that has been already approved so this is regarding pipkins following up uh comment about you're making the brand for the main product of maker without any input or even much of an update because it seems like you should get

some feedback before spending all the time and budget available I'm sure it will be good but we need to know what we do if it's bad what if the name is sful and that means everything else has to change exact yeah well understand your point and that's a fair point probably your point is that the community should have some feed uh some feedback opportunities to the brand and also they want to know beforehand what's going to be what's the brand going to look like I understand your point probably this is per point but those facts are not defined in the MS that they are not defined in the end game and

that's probably something that the governance facilitators or the community by itself to should work on it like you want you can go to the for and propose that to be added to the me probably uh and then governance will vote on that like I can't tell you what the process for that going to look like right now uh I can only tell tell you what are the things that are defined on ending considering the AME has been approved and what has been defined is that we're going to do a new brand and there's budget allocated to that and we are working on that like we're doing our job just to be very clear are you

getting any feedback on what you're doing or not yet sorry are you getting feedback for the work that you're currently doing yes yes we are getting feedback for different experts and as go said it's pretty much being treated as for example a risk adjustment parameter right it's pretty weird to see someone saying hey Monet Supply or block analytica I don't really like your rates that's weird I I haven't seen that I I I have seen discussions about different type of rate for assets and so on but I believe this re will be tweeted as such

okay good to know that you're having experts that are giving you're receiving feedback from um there is another question and I see also a pep is typing but this is a question from Marian and this was regarding what we were the question that was regarding to leer tus um can you imagine subd making this development in the layer to and other L ones just like spark is doing now and expanding maker to other chains yes absolutely I I I seeing that yeah and and if you ask me I believe they should be doing that yeah even and and even for non evm

chames if you ask me oh okay would you like to elaborate more on that or you're just going to no no it's just an opinion I mean I I always push for maker to work on products not not just protocols right I believe that maker should have its own staking Services I believe that maker should have its own decks its own per and future exchange pretty much its own everything we can do that and I keep saying this crypto is not collab crypto is adversarial at the end of the day and we are seeing that in other big products

shating on maker too right so we have the capacity we have the products we have the right people it's just a matter of decision of the community to start getting into other places right that is why I say nonm Cham also it's pretty interesting right I mean the EDM the buil a machine due to it nature can bring some type of product another type of vual machine that is not based on ethereum virtual machine that's call it for example I don't know Sana Cosmos whatever the other chain is can bring another type of Primitives due to its technology right

and I'm all for that I mean I I would love to see maker on those change too right but I know that that is a difficult discussion to have and it's requires a lot a lot of work but it's just my opinion that's perfect thank you thank you for sharing your insight into this okay I I see no more questions please if you have any other questions this is your moment otherwise uh I before I ask you to say goodbye I would like to ask you about what has been the most challenging so far about all this process process uh building a new brand is

really hard you have so many elements to consider and uh it's been a while right uh probably what's what's more challenging about that is the fact that you don't know what's the r like what's the impact of a brand once you launch it until you launch it actually uh but you you are only working with a lot of hypothesis based uh considerations and then based on that

you have different opinions from different people and you start discussing what's the best approach but as Mariana said we have been working with the the best inclass teams in building Brands and have been receiving feedback from experts in the field people that have been working with the top brands in technology around the world how they have launched and built and also worked with successful Brands so we have some sense of what success is going to be and how to get

there thank you tabal uh what about you Mariana is it uh the same yeah uh but also it's how you can extract the way all the things that are related to crypto that are so deeply rooted in us to bring something new right it's like I don't know if I can ask to you hey can you come up with a new color it's pretty damn difficult right uh and that's that's the thing here it's it's like

a very hard work to obstruct away these difficult things but the the nice thing about it is that pushes you to think about things in a different manner about money about the products about maker about die about Integrations even right I mean this whole Revolution with instruction also pretty pretty damn interesting right so it's not only like the brand that you see it in terms of visuals but it's how you experience that

brand through their products that thing it's it it was like a really uh an eye opening work for me got it thank you guys I don't know if there's anything else that you would like to share that you have haven't mentioned and you would like us to to know please this is the moment and if not just I'm going to give you a couple of minutes to say goodbye thank you guys for the work you're doing yeah pretty amazing well thank you for joining us and thank you for everyone for your

insights your questions that is uh this is our last call this was a pretty good ending so please please expect our documents in the upcoming weeks we're going to ask for feedback and uh this they're not going to be calls for the next two weeks just for everyone to know and that's all so thank you for your time and attention bye-bye again thank byebye [Music] byebye [Music]

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