14° AVC subcommittee meeting | Protocol Scope | Sovereign Finance | MakerDAO

Transcript

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foreign [Music] hello welcome [Music] hi or 80s hi to all the pl members participants they see also uh from verify hello Kanga I see of course Clocky blue Park

penguin Soldier Jack thank you for being here we are about to start so today is the 14th comedy meeting of course today is protocol School I'll let me start by answering their oh okay there was already answered to clocky's question about foreign Finance ABC is in favor of the Meep 102 yes Clocky thank you so much and uh okay so as always this is if this is your first time we are going to share a notion of all the links necessarily so you can

understand our position on in all the work that we are doing in the ABC and if you're reading about us and I think the most of the people that are here are recognized because the participant and attend most of the calls um and if you want to become on ABC please delegate to one of our 80s that are also here shout out to them Park Clocky blue penguin Soldier and Jack okay so we have a guest uh from today that is Chris coxor and um we are has questions related to uh

letting both the this scope um I'm going to show you in a bit uh I'm gonna go with this part okay um just in a bit before that we are going to cover very briefly runes post uh that was called the Next Generation Atlas and governance AI tools uh just with the most relevant information remember that tomorrow is also a call so we're going to a kind of like also a reminder to to all the ABC's members uh delegates to attend the call and uh last but notifically not the least we're going to show you order to

keep proposal some extra information so more details and of course we are asking for your feedback go back to the chat so this is me 107 I'm going to share oh thank you for asking I'm going to share also the link particles meet 107.

but I'm also sending the the link okay um so I I assume that most of you have seen the post runes post a few days ago um and already there was a call the first call it was kind of like a community call and it was in order to um all of us collaborate on the new Atlas in governance AI tools for in-game phase one launch so specifically for ABC members and align delegates and so this is every Friday although I mean tomorrow there will be a call next week they're

one because of course um Rose going to be in Korea and Singapore blockchains for a uh to to have this presentation about also the end game um so um just a friendly reminder that tomorrow there is a call we have there is four to six pm CES team um uh well the the last call was very general it was uh because it was the first call it was very kind of like um not too Technical and uh also there were other topics that were um mentioned

but um in the post not only it's about these Community calls going to be um so we're putting this two topics that are the Adaptive system data set it it's basically uh well a collection of all relevant information for the star the entire system um so here includes maker governance the protocol the community um principles rules historical data call I mean everything is going to be in here all aspects of the system

uh and then we have the autonomous decision making um and this is in theory a fully strap adaptive system that I said could autonomously predict optimal decisions for various events without human input um so in this part there is of course because of the guide and all these AI tools um is this is in order to improve participation to make it easier uh but then we'll see that uh the final situations is going are going to be made by by humans I don't know if anyone has to come into this but I'm pointing that out

um then you say the practicality of inputting all necessary data is limited in the current pre-adi world governance processes can use human input to fill in missing data and course correct um and then we have this in uh used in maker governance um of course this is in order to create a system where people collaborate with this align processes um and well the goal of this is um I think this is both it's more in detail so the atlas is going to contain

different data that is going to be covering uh different aspects of the end game um something else that is coming in here it's um of course the guides that are designed to facilitate the easy easy participation in in governance um because they automate interactions required for for governance and for um assisting users in in understanding and proposing and making decisions um of course this by using AI algorithms um

and something nice to mention with the guys it's they are aim at enhancing accessibility and it's mentioned that it also wants to encourage contributors from different participants and something that I would like to highlight is that even those without the expertise um something else to mention in here of course oh this is like a various summary in everything from the uh from the post um

and oh yeah something else to mention in here is about the um the applications of the guide so this includes let's say simplifying projects this includes monitoring compliance by ecosystem contributors um translating content to different languages and um assisting in decision making um so the atlas is also intended to be adaptable for use by by some dials in order to enable smaller branches of the organization to make use

similar tools um well something that it's not in here but I would I would like also to to mention it's about of course a Powerhouse um in the post it also introduced power of Powerhouse and um a turkey that acts as an interface an interface for stakeholders to access the atlas data and use the capabilities of the guides um so Powerhouse is intended to make navigating this all these difficulties of the atlas structure

um to make it more using user friendly and in order to provide assistance to to chords stakeholders um in order to facilitator and their engagement with all of these governance process so um overall these uh development outlined um I mean this aims to create an innovating system that is AI in these tools to enhance

efficiency and inclusivity of decision made decision making hold on before we go to the next part let's see if we have a okay um so we're going to go we're going to move to our s just let me check if it's already here okay I see any audience

uh people from deal with I see uh I don't know if I'm pronouncing well if if I and we're going to go with our guest for tonight to date okay so we have Chris hexer he is part of a phoenix labs and these are the topics that we're going to be discussing today hey everyone Hi how are you doing I'm good thanks

we're going to start but first I would like you to give us an introduction about yourself and please tell us very briefly about what has been your experience uh I don't know if you want to already mention about Fitness labs and also before that yeah so so I've been in blockchain space for several several years uh for a long time I was associated with Michael doll back in the foundation days I was busy working on uh Oasis decks and then I was part of the protocol

engineering core unit for the the doll itself and um and I was one of my responsibilities was was uh developing uh die bridges for different layer tools mainly optimism and arbitrum we're working with these teams for a very long time before they launched um and then uh in the meantime I co-founded company called to beat layer to beat where we do a risk assessment of different layer tools

uh and we try to educate about like you know different risks of uh starring uh their assets on different on different layers as well as we provide basic statistics about like DBL Matrix and and activity DPS ones uh and I co-founded the project even though uh these days I'm not involved like full-time uh in it these days contributed I'm working at Phoenix apps and we're contributing to spark um I'm a product guy behind our new uh

uh web app uh Sanchez web app which is in the works and yeah I guess that's that's me oh uh answering to the question from the chat uh obviously Dave Van niece was was a little bit before my times uh back in Taipan it was was like born in in the pub I think it could stand up Hub team and it was it was a little bit before uh I mean I was in the part of smart contract team back in the foundation date but Taiwanese was born even even before that

interesting yeah I think with uh LTB is a basis catcher and uh interesting about that one is yes it's like uh um I saw also bring in not only where was what did I read about it um here on the Discord so I think it was a many people like that um okay so now let's move on to the the progress of of spark um multi-chain development so um to provide an update on the current status of spark multi change development um and also tell us what Kai what or

what female students have been achieved and what are the next steps in its development roadmount please yeah so first of all as far as I can tell uh I mean a lot of things changed since we were first thinking about you know making uh makerdale uh fully cross train and uh back in like practical engineering the car you need days we were thinking about uh making like moving uh basically MCD like the car vault system into

different Chinese about these days uh I think the next idea is is gone and we're uh thinking more in terms of like enabling different sub Towers to uh to be able to you know go and and explore other planes as well as like the doubt the maker though agrees and uh to do that we need to have this conduit system and I think this is like the very first Milestone uh in like uh for full realization of like multitime uh development not only spark but all other sub-dials like we need to have a like

the Dow has to have a way to you know give this credit line and this desire and this can't do it and you can think about it as like a modern more modern version of d3m modules right uh so so from technical point of view this is like the the first huge milestone and as far as I can tell like development is going pretty pretty good on this front but uh on the other hand like just focusing on what spark uh stopped out does um we published some time ago like our multi-chain strategy approach uh on the

firm and basically we have this uh like two-phase uh strategy for rolling out on on new planes and basically the first plane is like a permissionless deployment where uh like Community uh of a given kind uh can like first they need to make a proposal on the Forum but then they can basically deploy uh sparkland on on their pain as well as they get they give like uh some of the proper governance right over the host

Factory uh and this means that also the the the the the community associated with a given chain would would post like a junior Capital so basically it would work in the way that this doesn't require countries this doesn't require even like a maker governance vote it's more like you know someone deploys the uh uh the sparkland and configuration properly so so the full control is on the maker dial side but it can you know because on its own and it doesn't need a credit line from the from the maker dial itself it's just rather Junior Capital provided by the by the China community and actually there were

like two proposals like this um on on the farm one coming from uh technology chain which is old xdi chain and the other one is as far as I remember uh polygon ZK uh evm time so uh so I think actually like um the first cross-trained deployment I am in the first deployment on the other chain of uh of department is relatively close but as I said like this is the phase one deployment and then the phase two would be uh you know providing like a credit

line from the from the maker dial which requires obviously a vault and it also requires a conduits to work so we're not there yet uh but of course there's also lots of like ground work regarding risk assessment and and so on of like you know how much exposure uh maker that wants to have uh on on a given time um and [Music] um and also like this is greatly dependent on the you know on the Chain itself right like some of these chains are actually layer twos or Roll-Ups like like CK uh evm from polygon but because

this chain is just like uh it's just like a side chain on one hand on the other hand it's like very close with the dire system right uh and and I use a native uh currency uh there so I assume that that that maker dial probably wants to support the efforts like this even though it's not late right uh yeah I think that that's it question uh huge milestones and also listen to what you say that development is doing pretty good um and all the

uh the first apartment the phase two uh you mentioned layer twos roll-ups um okay uh it's very good to know that you have that perspective um now moving on to the next part uh with the initial um chain consideration and selection criteria we have a couple of questions um so in the initial phase of choosing chains to integrate with um which is specific chains are being evoluted you already have mentioned some um could you elaborate on the criteria driving these selections such as the TBL

such as um the centralization metrics or any other relevant factors please yeah so you know it's not like I'm personally making any calls here but I can give you like you know my opinion on all of this and uh you know as I as I mentioned like different chains that take different risk profiles right like some of them are Labs which tend to be pretty secure but of course like uh uh on how to beat you will actually find like what's the what's the actual reason profile and spoiler alert if it's not like you know even where those are

Roll-Ups right now right so so that's that there's that but also like the the there needs to be assessment on the on the tvl Matrix like you know is there even a demand uh for example like this and like generally speaking uh I think there needs to be uh more and more efforts of like you know making die uh using the like uh incentivizing just at the beginning date in Center Valley Center that I use it on different domains right and I think like

the the edsr and DSR is like uh uh move in the in the great Direction but as well like we have this huge uh like making s die like savings that you're like uh Tire or you know one of these like basically having like a DS DSR on different domains is actually uh very important in in like you know making like the the uh uh creating demands for die on different planes I think and this is like you know another thing that we need to focus and we're focusing on uh from technical point of

view [Music] that part I'm going to say what you said uh creating demand of die in different chains um well as a store percent I'm going to present again there is a question on the chat and it says uh synchrotones ask is a bridge executed on the cross chain forwarded to centralized uh I'm not sure which Bridge executor are you talking about right now um to be more more in detail his his

typing so yeah yeah I mean if you're thinking about the governance relay uh that is right now uh you know deployed on Optimus and arbitrum and yeah and I think uh also the case thing like uh basically it works in the way that you know the the layer one governance like Michael does only on there one um Can execute arbitrary code

spell on layer 2 right and all the contracts in related to stimulate to to layer well right like there's a single like proxy contract which is an owner of every single contract on Layer Two and you can like you know delegate call to a spell and execute some article code and and you know the the layer one governance is uh listening chart of of uh you know this this mechanism so um so it's not really different from layer one uh player one like uh so answering your your second part of

the question yes like uh this is mainly what it does right like player one governance calls something uh because the governance layer and the governance their calls there to spell and it's being executed on there too I hope it answers your question thank you thank you for answering and thank you for your question though also synchrotron um something that you mentioned uh before it's about the father you're a I mean

um making more effort uh while making that I or creating demand you mentioned also the edsr the DSR the S die um I don't know if you want to kind of like press your insights on all of these proposals uh with the the rose post about it uh which do you have any comments on this about also the edsr there was a change uh yeah so I mean you can clearly see that it's uh it's good for the Thai

Demand right okay Supply right edsr like I I mean this brief period of um diet being at like eight percent I mean uh DSR being at eight percent and stability being at like free something percent was a little bit unhealthy right because it just presented like a lot of Arbitrage opportunities but um even but now it's uh stability and and DSR rate is back at five percent and we can still see that the die demands the

supply is slowly growing um and I think it is great like uh you know what we should uh fight for right and then this basically means that the larger blockchain Community love uh stable coin yet right and yeah I think uh is great that we found this equilibrium it seems where you know the the the the year it is high enough to incentivize people to switch to dial from different stable kinds okay

and keeping in that line about die so let's uh let's talk about approach to connecting dye across chains um so when planning to establish connections for die on different change um are you leaning towards leveraging existing Bridge infrastructure or pursuing an independent development approach uh let's say it's similar to the teleport project [Music] um yeah so in general um you know I mean that is is permissionless right and it worked out

of the box you can say with any like uh existing bridging infrastructure uh like I don't know hope or connects whatever as long as they want to you know introduce it to their protocol and I don't know there are some market makers want to that want to um you know Market make in these protocols will die so I believe like you know this is the way to go like we should you know make it easy from like technical point of view to integrate dying into this different infrastructure and this is what we see

right now right like guy was one of the first stable kinds that was introduced to HUB protocol and you know people can can like pretty easily expand the die across different things even though the maker teleport is not already uh operation from what I can say and and also like coming back from to to make your teleports think it was developed it was designed with having uh having the McD on different planes which as I said before is not gonna happen from what I gather

and uh and this this mechanism will meet some uh you know redesign in the future but at the same time like die I think is is pretty easy to to to to to you know move across planes right now but of course like with some more like native piece of infrastructure we could potentially we could potentially make it cheaper for like uh bigger amounts of diet between plants like you know which is super low fees and so on uh and this is definitely something that I think

it's like important to to work on you you mentioned um the maker teleport is not really operational can you please elaborate on that yeah I mean I don't know the details really uh right now I don't have the stats but um as far as I uh could tell um this is actually the the very last thing that I worked on why why being part of PECO but basically the tech is done uh or because I think are working but there is no real simple UI to use it

and it also only works uh on um from optimistic Rock to layer one right like from optimism or from arbitrum popular one which makes it quite like you know constrained in in usability uh uh but in principle like this is the cheapest way right to withdraw huge amounts of die from from from latest and you know uh I think now we need to gather everything that we that we learned

um and then design a new kind of system uh that would work in uh potentially with spark then directly right um yeah interesting thank you so much for that um yeah now uh let's move on to the existing infrastructure utilization um so if the decision is to use existing infrastructure for question connections um which is specific infrastructure options are under consideration and additionally which teams are

collaborators um are you actually working with there's another question and it was a specific considerations got your choice of Partners let's say security team reputation technical expertise uh yeah so as I already mentioned like you know Dai is already existing uh in many of uh these uh cross training swap uh protocols like I don't know hope uh comics Club across and and so on

um and and you know this is rather something that that the the protocol is responsible for for uh for moving the assets around there like always striving to to do is like you know to integrate diet because it's it's uh the most popular decentralized stable kind right so that's why this is the Integrations already exist I think it's great and you know uh um I think as a you know if it's a hard these kind of efforts wherever we can um there's like uh you know in future like um I imagine that um their groups exist like conduits that

uh basically inject Thai liquidity directly to any of these protocols um and you know I would love to to see such a future where you know we don't have to uh invent uh everything on our own on our own like inside of the maker though but rather like you know use existing infrastructure I guess it does um answers a little bit of that the next question uh um there was another one but it's

involved about um the choice of cross change to standard um so when aiming to establish connections between die and other chains uh are you leaning towards adopting an extension of the erc20 standard and if so which is specific is extension standard has been considered options like later stairs of tea access its or well you you mentioned Electronics so connects a r e r c 20 and uh What factors contribute to you to your choice yeah to be honest I'm not an expert in

this like extensions but uh you know I think from the user perspective like like I mean first of all like apart from the developer perspective like I think and personally like quite neutral and you know the the guys like uh permissionless anyone can you know try to to make it work with their like preaching um solution right uh and I think it's great like that we have like this variety of different uh options uh but um from the user perspective I think what's really important to have like some kind of way to understand like uh

what's worked right like on some chains uh there exists tokens that are called die uh but you know no one really knows if how they could bridge if they're like uh collateralized property and and so on like I'm thinking mostly about sidelines right now uh not about roll up because in the Roll-Ups just like bridging strategy so it's a bit more uh yeah you said it's a bit easier but generally like you know using I guess these years the 20 extension means like you know leaning like uh using one of these message uh uh cross-playing message

protocols right and of course they're free so I think for the from the user perspective there should be some kind of research that enables people to just understand like you know using this token called something something die on this plane means that uh you know it was bridged like this and that risk right associated with uh with this token and personally I would like to see a resource that would you know present all of this information in like you know easy to try to digest way like you know sell the DPS and different tokens and

you know theories um and you know enable users to just speak uh uh something that that works great for them uh and like generally maybe coming back to the previous questions uh I like the the tools that are kind of like uh extracting that starts um yeah dinner I like the tools that are kind of abstracting like the exact Bridge details from the end users and they're like uh you know Bridge aggregators right and we have Solutions like li-fi or

uh the other one called uh I forget the name but anyway like they even try to express the risks of particular Bridges uh when bridging funds to the end users and yeah I think it's pretty great I agree with you uh so you use you have mentioned that um of course you do want to be involved about the technical stuff uh and you what you said is that from user perspective which is true like well users don't really care about what's going on on the smart contract and everything and they're just really want to use it for example like die in

order to solve a solution that they have in for example like here in Latin America like inflation and everything and so um I'm very interested in what you said about the resource that uh anyone could present I mean this Resort will there will be all of this information uh in order for users to find this information in a basic or simple simple way are you planning to to build a tool like this uh I mean as I said like it would be great that uh

if this uh would exist right um I know you know I don't approaching that that's a lot of resources but uh obviously I'm thinking about it a bit and I know they they uh they created like a proposal um to make a custom to work uh more closer together but um honestly I'm not that involved these days in the project and I don't know the details and I don't know which stage um you know the but you know I believe that such resource would uh will be created sooner or later because I think this is going

to be really uh needed uh to to make like cross-chain die 100 this is going to be really needed um okay let's let's move on to the chat Jack asks what's the expected pace of smart deployments one per quarter yeah I don't know I think it's all um all up to like you know community and and and uh I guess uh the huge Factor will

be here like uh seeing how well or how bad already existing deployments are doing and you know iterating over that right like uh is very hard to answer right now I think but we learned a lot after the first tournament right so I can't wait for for that when it's going to be so again I think it all depends on the hypnosis uh plan right now as they're doing this um uh this uh permissionless deployment but I believe

it's it's going to be relatively soon but keep in mind that it's it's gonna be like uh the there's that the number the amount of time possible to minted on that chain won't be that high because it's not the maker doubt that provides the capital but rather the the clan committee itself okay so it's a Synchro tongue says it also depends on how many new domain applications they get iirc is that right come again I don't see this question

um is the last one because it's about also the uh yeah yeah exactly yeah but but I know that you know a lot of ecosystems like uh optimism or arbition always wanted to you know have make a dial instance on on their chain uh but you know um discard that from technical uh results it was very hard to do so now once we solve these issues I guess uh you know the the flood gates will open and we'll see much more applications perfect

um now I'm going to read uh pinkled soldier's question it says any specific developer tools ideas that could increase the usage and integration of die maker bolts um yeah I mean uh I think like the biggest challenge on the integration front uh is uh not really dying integration about rather as die integration right and uh I mean as they are any like other DSR wrapper right like I believe that you know die shouldn't be used that much everyone should preach to some uh you

know version of die but plugged into DSR and token is right like chai or S die right and uh and this is a little bit more problematic and Technical front because this is uh this is a token that that you know it's Pride it's always increasing because of the fees that are occurring and um and this makes like integration from technical point of view harder it may uh wallet integration harder because it's not a stable current right uh but it uh it's actually um supporting this ERC for involved so actually I hope that in the near future

wallets wallet UI is probably realize that you know oh it's actually right now died that that it's kept under the hood and and you know it's not gonna show that uh you know you hold like uh you know then as they were 12 died but rather it will tell you that you know you know your own 12 Day in the form of like you know as bad or something like this and it will like you know do all the calculations under the hood so uh I think like uh something that that uh that wallet developers should focus on um and on the on the Vault side so you

know with Spartans Parkland is like a other court so uh there's a lot of existing to link uh like a different like uh services like summerfi or um or uh instead up or device saver uh that that need to basically start supporting spark and they already did that uh but now once once we move to different chains like this uh this has happened all over again like you know I had um have you know support for these different across like multiple trains and of

course like as I said like Phoenix apps develops like uh the new uh shiny UI for all things related to spark and I'm kind of excited about this and and I'm sure that it's gonna be also a pretty nice way to you know open uh anymore in this Parkland I I was writing can you repeat why I should yeah so uh answering your question yes as the high integration is more

important than that integration because as that is just like die but earning interest right the DSR right um and uh for diet powders there is no additional risks involved other than uh I guess smart contract risks associated with the with the wrapper contract but uh but the year it is coming from the um borrowers right so the the die is already like internalizing all these risks and just by using the value instead of

DSR enabled version of die you're just missing on all the ad um so yes I I do believe that as the Integrations is like the is is like super important uh um you know because it just by holding it you earn five percent right you earn zero percent so but they're not like right interesting very interesting thank you so much for your answer got it um I have one more um

this is for this is from Synchro turned he says uh but the majority of your growth will come from Landing the allocator dials correct uh I made this interpretation because the product Market fit for spark sounds like it will be based on land into allocators and using the base rate to lend or discount yeah honestly I um I'm not sure how to answer this question uh maybe you can have this question again when we have more members done from Phoenix lab

perfect so we're going to save this interesting question uh yeah not late interlocutors allocators were supplied in this part Market thank you so much to do glad to have you here um we have a couple more questions uh this was longer than we expected uh so the next question it's uh uh something also relevant which it's about contemplated security measures uh for bridge hacks so um with the increasing concern over security

um what is specific security mechanisms or particles are you considering or planning to implement to safeguard against potential hacks or breaches involving the crosstream bridge for or die um yeah so you know the the so we're not in business of developing our own Bridges right we're just gonna use whatever Bridge against out there and or layered tools usually uh there's like a native brick which which doesn't carry a lot of like additional risks because if it's broken

probably the whole construction is broken that's the case for Roll-Ups at least so uh so we will just use that but then of course the risk is what if whole domain goes belly up or what if there are there is no native Bridge so there is no native Bridge we could use to take the consensus of multiple Bridges uh and and you know um we should we should get something reasonable I guess then uh but uh but then as for like you know um keeping uh the the risk of the whole domain in track

um this is what we have that's all right like uh once the conduit system is done you would have to like you know uh as as far as I can tell you would have like spark lands or optimism conduit right and this could this would be this would this country it would have like the its own that's right like for example the dial says that it's comfortable uh Landing like up to one million die on optimism right and this means that uh if at the uh and basically like you know keeps the risk of the helper on the whole protocol

in check right okay uh I was reading because now there is more uh comments on this yeah um so let me read it um says it is important to know that all those without too can provide the infrastructure to allow cross-chain deposits this does not mean that domain will be allocated that selling appears capacity allocated hours are built to be competitive so the yield product from

the LT Park land instance needs to exceed what they will get elsewhere all occasion is a zero Zoom game allocators are normally charged the base rate but maker offers a discounted rate for decentralized strategic collateral which is the focus of subdial 2 okay this is discount over rates on sparkling should be lowest possible as they are equal to the DSR oh thank you so much uh this is a quote what I would like to um send the link where is this from please oh perfect there it is thank you so much

uh I don't know if there is any other questions or something else Chris that you would like to add uh no I I'm good thanks for giving me the you know opportunity to talk oh thank you for your time again as I mentioned this was longer we expected we still have uh one more topic to discuss all the [Music] um now we're going to uh continue with our proposal because we have here a proposal from the Dow toolkit and so uh we're going to continue this a next call for

this same scope and thank you so much to the people to our aeds and to everyone that asks questions because remember that this is the only way that we can get to get more um insights and again once again to to Chris for being here with us to explaining this and uh probably for a lot of people this is more clear but there are also some things that are um technical so we we're glad that we have you here um that will be all for today and we'll see you next week because as you can see we have our proposal to share with you all also this is going to be in our

document so uh you could also uh when we post it you can give us feedback about this that will be all bye bye everyone look at that um here uh where it feels pretty in our 80s um proposals as well feedback and we're going to share the link of all the proposals so far so again we appreciate and value feedback from 80s from maker governance participants and all member of the maker ecosystem and as always a we're going to see next week the topic is stability scope

that would be all and thank you for your time and attention bye bye